It’s not clear if Yehuda did break a rule, often drivers will shout incorrect advice such as when a driver shouted wrongly at me for not using the cycle lane: “You’re breaking the law.” No, I’m not.
OTOH if Yehuda does ride like a scofflaw, then I hope he gets a ticket.
Seconded – cyclists who break laws give the rest of us a bad name. No matter what selfish excuses they may bleat. If I go through a red light when I’m on my motorbike, no amount of “but it’s for my own safety” or “they’re really only for cars” excuses me, I just look like an idiot. The same goes for cyclists.
“But that rule was written by drivers for cars” is a pathetic excuse. You’re on the road, obey the laws of the road.
In general I agree that reckless law breaking cyclists give the rest of us a bad name. It looks to me like he might have filtering through congested traffic. If thats the law he is breaking I can’t blame him and I have to agree with him about the source of the laws. Carefully filtering through stalled traffic in NYC is what enables me to ride all those car free streches of street hidden behind double parked livery cabs.
It’s always amazing to me to see how many “Experts” are out there that yell about how I’m violating some law or another, when I actually have looked up the rule.
Proposal for new rule in the driver’s manual: You must own, and read, the driver’s manual at least once a year before you can yell out about someone’s “illegal” maneuver, failure to comply results in you having to pay a real fine, plus lawyers fees, loss of wages etc.
Related topic… I once got the local TV traffic guy to appologize and explain how bike riding on the side of the freeways in Oregon are legal, after he made a ill informed crack on TV concerning my legal use of the road.
Is the transition to a new commenting software having something to do with repeated comments? I only clicked “Post” once and it put up three copies.
I’m using Safari.
That’s been happening all along, and is one of the several reasons I’m so glad Rick is going to a different comment system. You should be able to delete the extra copies, though.
I’m using Safari as well – and that bug doesn’t affect me.
Mine is Safari on Mac OS X, Your’s ?
Thus double or trice-postings usually are timestamped 10 sec apart from each other. So I think it’s some bug within the provider of the poster.
When anti-cyclists rail at me about how cyclists never stop at stop signs, I tell them we learned the behavior by watching motorists.
I also like to stop at stop lights, not just because it’s the thing to do, but because it confuses the people who tell me that cyclists never stop at stop lights.
LOL, no kidding. I got nearly rear-ended by other cyclists several times when I stopped at a red light. They looked at me like they saw Elvis or something. One got really upset with me for slowing his progress.
Did you signal your intention to slow and then stop? If not, the person behind you may have some basis for being annoyed–but yes, everyone should maintain a certain minimum safe distance.
I’ve nearly been right-turned by a cyclist who was left of me, then suddenly veered right w/out signalling; I had to slam my brakes, then swerve left behind them, momentarily into traffic. Remains one of the scariest moments I’ve ever had on a bike.
We’re all using hand signals out there, right? RIGHT?
I once read a studi from Berlin that showed an asounishing fact: The only reason why car drivers obey red traffic lights more tahn cyclist is: They lack the opportunity to disobey. Red light times for cars are in general far shorter than for bikes and if there is a red light, most cars have another car in front of them.
Just countig cars in first row at red lights against bike riders gives an equal score.
Last night waas out on a small group ride of simmilarly aged guys ( old farts ) when we got passed approaching a set of lights by a 20-something on a $5,000 cervelo. That’s cool, lets see if we can stay with him, huh? He jumped the lights! Game on! I don’t think he liked getting passed by 2 of the 4, I only missed because I caught another light, didn’t seem right to copycat to rub his nose in it.
We work with the neighborhood kids, and lead a no-drop ride on Saturdays so we feel it is our responsibility to set a good example. We wear helmets when we ride and follow “all” of the rules of the road. Stop signs are an opportunity to practice track stands, we usually lag lights (we have 3 stop lights in town!), and signal all of our turns. On occasion we may only “totally pause” at stop signs when we might thereby beat traffic. This borderline OCD behavior began about 30 years ago when our first daughter began to ride, just about the same time I stopped smoking a pipe. ”Daddy, if boys smoke pipes, what do girls smoke?” ”We don’t smoke in this house.”
Not bragging, just sharing how relationships can impact responsibility.
What bugs me is getting harrassed for obeying the law. It hasn’t happened in a couple years now but for awhile there I was getting yelled at for stopping at an intersection and signalling my intentions, for crossing at a proper cycling crosswalk from a cycle path, for wearing a reflector vest, for stopping at a red light. I don’t know what it was all about really. I suppose transferred blame from someone else combined with media demonization.
I think the reason that it has dissipated is that, at least where I leave, there are so many people cycling now that they start to see that there are different styles and that we aren’t a single type of person.
I was once cornered by an old lady at an event and when she found out I cycled there she asked, very acusingly if I go through red lights or bike on sidewalks and when I said no she said to tell my friends not to. I told her that my friends don’t cycle. She was astounded. I suppose she thought there was some group that all knew each other or something. I was civil but I wish now I told her off. Or at told her that she shares responsibility with all other car drivers for the things that they do wrong if she’s going to use that kind of logic.
I usually “break” rules when cycling. I agree on the argument that some rules are made for “cars”, nevertheless I know I am doing wrong and potencially could be ticket.(and this won´t be an accepted excuse) I.e. in some countries cycles can go oposite traffic direction in one way streets ( i.e. in France),
In Spain you cannot do it, but I do. I wonder when goverment will think on bikes when doing traffic laws, till that day, yes I am out of the law
I generally stop at all stop lights unless I go temporarilly insane from hitting 6 in a row that are all a 1/4 mile apart. With stop signs I pretend I am from idaho or Colorado (treat as yield if on a bicycle). I’m with Yehuda on this one. Cars don’t obey them either and I can’t remember the last time a driver passed me “legally”. Not excusing law breaking but with 40 stop signs on any given route things get a little ridiculous.
I’m glad to see I’m not the only one. In my mind there is something inherently different between a stoplight and a stopsign. I will stop at any and every red light (the exception being left turn lights that won’t trigger for bicycles.. Those I will run, but only when safe to do so), but treat stop signs that have good visibility as yeild signs. Especially all way stops. Unless there’s a car already waiting I generally tend to blow through. And when there IS a car waiting, they almost seem surprised that I’ve stopped, to the point where I have to actually put my foot on the ground to indicate to them they can really go.
I’m with Yehuda. Those roads are in my way. they weren’t built for me. I could have ridden my bike across the bald prarie without those rules and I never signed a contract to follow them (like the driver’s license for my car). So I see them as imposed unnecessarily on me for the sake of legal fairness rather than being to my benefit or otherwise useful as a whole. That being said, they’re good for sorting out things like right of way so i know the rules and I can follow them and when I break them, it’s deliberate and careful, not careless. I figure I have to work that much harder to get my bike moving again, it’s not a simple press of a throttle pedal, it’s my physical effort, so I will not come to a “full and complete” stop just because there’s a sign there, and other little things. I’m doing it for everyone, and if they would get out of their cars we wouldnt need most of the laws anyway. So ;-P~~~~ to the rule mongers. You don’t obey because it’s there, you follow it because it makes sense.
Yeah, many rules were made because a motor vehicle is capable of destruction (and has been.) They weren’t made for other types of transport.
But I feel that much of the law breaking is due to the system not being designed for cycling so being left out of things there is no sense that it would benefit you to follow them. (Add to that the inconsistency in laws from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.)
Motorists have far more laws to obey than cyclists. (Most of which they don’t care to know or obey but that’s beside the point.) We can manage the few that apply to cyclists as well.
But what was Yehuda’s big crime?
Many of the traffic lights around here are on-demand lights that don’t respond to a bicycle. They’re a real pain. During rush hour, I’ll wait a short time for a car to arrive and trip the light. At other times, I’ll treat it like a stop sign. Apparently this is legal in Kansas, but I may have some explaining to do here in PA.
I think it’s legal everywhere. If the light doesn’t change when it should, then it’s non-functional, and non-functional lights are supposed to be treated like stop signs. I do the same thing you do, but fortunately I only know of three (widely separated) lights in my area that don’t respond to my bicycle.
Cyclist’s don’t obey the laws? Go to a 4 way stop sign intersection and watch how many cars actually come to a full stop. The next time you’re in your car, drive at the posted speed limit and tell me how many cars pass you. Hint, if car drivers are so law abiding as they claim to be, the answer should be zero. While you’re at it check the percentage of drivers the actually use their turn signals correctly.
It’s not clear if Yehuda did break a rule, often drivers will shout incorrect advice such as when a driver shouted wrongly at me for not using the cycle lane: “You’re breaking the law.” No, I’m not.
OTOH if Yehuda does ride like a scofflaw, then I hope he gets a ticket.
Seconded – cyclists who break laws give the rest of us a bad name. No matter what selfish excuses they may bleat. If I go through a red light when I’m on my motorbike, no amount of “but it’s for my own safety” or “they’re really only for cars” excuses me, I just look like an idiot. The same goes for cyclists.
“But that rule was written by drivers for cars” is a pathetic excuse. You’re on the road, obey the laws of the road.
Agreed. I’m sick and tired of cyclists breaking laws under false excuses.
In general I agree that reckless law breaking cyclists give the rest of us a bad name. It looks to me like he might have filtering through congested traffic. If thats the law he is breaking I can’t blame him and I have to agree with him about the source of the laws. Carefully filtering through stalled traffic in NYC is what enables me to ride all those car free streches of street hidden behind double parked livery cabs.
I don’t filter. I stop behind the right rear corner of the bumper of the car ahead of me and move when that car moves.
It’s always amazing to me to see how many “Experts” are out there that yell about how I’m violating some law or another, when I actually have looked up the rule.
Proposal for new rule in the driver’s manual: You must own, and read, the driver’s manual at least once a year before you can yell out about someone’s “illegal” maneuver, failure to comply results in you having to pay a real fine, plus lawyers fees, loss of wages etc.
Related topic… I once got the local TV traffic guy to appologize and explain how bike riding on the side of the freeways in Oregon are legal, after he made a ill informed crack on TV concerning my legal use of the road.
http://bikeportland.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2200
“Experts” are everywhere. Not just onthe road. Human nature K’Tesh.
A quick update on the ‘comments’ issue:
JSKIT (the software company that created the comments this site uses) is no longer supporting the comments software and will end service in October.
We’ve successfully moved all comments from JSKIT to a new WordPress website and are feverishly working to get it published before Fall.
All 55,000 comments made it!
Yay! Thanks:)
Is the transition to a new commenting software having something to do with repeated comments? I only clicked “Post” once and it put up three copies.
I’m using Safari.
That’s been happening all along, and is one of the several reasons I’m so glad Rick is going to a different comment system. You should be able to delete the extra copies, though.
I’m using Safari as well – and that bug doesn’t affect me.
Mine is Safari on Mac OS X, Your’s ?
Thus double or trice-postings usually are timestamped 10 sec apart from each other. So I think it’s some bug within the provider of the poster.
Repeating comments won’t happen anymore with WordPress.
1. ”Opinions are like a$$holes. Everybody’s got one and everyone thinks everyone else’s stinks.”
2. “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”
When anti-cyclists rail at me about how cyclists never stop at stop signs, I tell them we learned the behavior by watching motorists.
I also like to stop at stop lights, not just because it’s the thing to do, but because it confuses the people who tell me that cyclists never stop at stop lights.
LOL, no kidding. I got nearly rear-ended by other cyclists several times when I stopped at a red light. They looked at me like they saw Elvis or something. One got really upset with me for slowing his progress.
Did you signal your intention to slow and then stop? If not, the person behind you may have some basis for being annoyed–but yes, everyone should maintain a certain minimum safe distance.
I’ve nearly been right-turned by a cyclist who was left of me, then suddenly veered right w/out signalling; I had to slam my brakes, then swerve left behind them, momentarily into traffic. Remains one of the scariest moments I’ve ever had on a bike.
We’re all using hand signals out there, right? RIGHT?
T.
Yes, I use hand signals, though people often look at me with a blank stare as if they have no idea what those signals mean.
Are you using the middle finger hand singnal??? Everyone knows that one!!!
No, I haven’t used that signal–on a bike or anywhere else–since sometime in the ’60s.
Yeah, I swtiched to the “alternate” signals in the TX law after 3 people waved at me when I made a right turn.
I once read a studi from Berlin that showed an asounishing fact: The only reason why car drivers obey red traffic lights more tahn cyclist is: They lack the opportunity to disobey. Red light times for cars are in general far shorter than for bikes and if there is a red light, most cars have another car in front of them.
Just countig cars in first row at red lights against bike riders gives an equal score.
Frankly, I’m sick of the boi-racers who blow thru red lights. They make us look bad.
Last night waas out on a small group ride of simmilarly aged guys ( old farts ) when we got passed approaching a set of lights by a 20-something on a $5,000 cervelo. That’s cool, lets see if we can stay with him, huh? He jumped the lights! Game on! I don’t think he liked getting passed by 2 of the 4, I only missed because I caught another light, didn’t seem right to copycat to rub his nose in it.
We work with the neighborhood kids, and lead a no-drop ride on Saturdays so we feel it is our responsibility to set a good example. We wear helmets when we ride and follow “all” of the rules of the road. Stop signs are an opportunity to practice track stands, we usually lag lights (we have 3 stop lights in town!), and signal all of our turns. On occasion we may only “totally pause” at stop signs when we might thereby beat traffic. This borderline OCD behavior began about 30 years ago when our first daughter began to ride, just about the same time I stopped smoking a pipe. ”Daddy, if boys smoke pipes, what do girls smoke?” ”We don’t smoke in this house.”
Not bragging, just sharing how relationships can impact responsibility.
What bugs me is getting harrassed for obeying the law. It hasn’t happened in a couple years now but for awhile there I was getting yelled at for stopping at an intersection and signalling my intentions, for crossing at a proper cycling crosswalk from a cycle path, for wearing a reflector vest, for stopping at a red light. I don’t know what it was all about really. I suppose transferred blame from someone else combined with media demonization.
I think the reason that it has dissipated is that, at least where I leave, there are so many people cycling now that they start to see that there are different styles and that we aren’t a single type of person.
I was once cornered by an old lady at an event and when she found out I cycled there she asked, very acusingly if I go through red lights or bike on sidewalks and when I said no she said to tell my friends not to. I told her that my friends don’t cycle. She was astounded. I suppose she thought there was some group that all knew each other or something. I was civil but I wish now I told her off. Or at told her that she shares responsibility with all other car drivers for the things that they do wrong if she’s going to use that kind of logic.
I usually “break” rules when cycling. I agree on the argument that some rules are made for “cars”, nevertheless I know I am doing wrong and potencially could be ticket.(and this won´t be an accepted excuse) I.e. in some countries cycles can go oposite traffic direction in one way streets ( i.e. in France),
In Spain you cannot do it, but I do. I wonder when goverment will think on bikes when doing traffic laws, till that day, yes I am out of the law
As Judge Dredd said: ” I am the law”
I generally stop at all stop lights unless I go temporarilly insane from hitting 6 in a row that are all a 1/4 mile apart. With stop signs I pretend I am from idaho or Colorado (treat as yield if on a bicycle). I’m with Yehuda on this one. Cars don’t obey them either and I can’t remember the last time a driver passed me “legally”. Not excusing law breaking but with 40 stop signs on any given route things get a little ridiculous.
I’m glad to see I’m not the only one. In my mind there is something inherently different between a stoplight and a stopsign. I will stop at any and every red light (the exception being left turn lights that won’t trigger for bicycles.. Those I will run, but only when safe to do so), but treat stop signs that have good visibility as yeild signs. Especially all way stops. Unless there’s a car already waiting I generally tend to blow through. And when there IS a car waiting, they almost seem surprised that I’ve stopped, to the point where I have to actually put my foot on the ground to indicate to them they can really go.
I’m with Yehuda. Those roads are in my way. they weren’t built for me. I could have ridden my bike across the bald prarie without those rules and I never signed a contract to follow them (like the driver’s license for my car). So I see them as imposed unnecessarily on me for the sake of legal fairness rather than being to my benefit or otherwise useful as a whole. That being said, they’re good for sorting out things like right of way so i know the rules and I can follow them and when I break them, it’s deliberate and careful, not careless. I figure I have to work that much harder to get my bike moving again, it’s not a simple press of a throttle pedal, it’s my physical effort, so I will not come to a “full and complete” stop just because there’s a sign there, and other little things. I’m doing it for everyone, and if they would get out of their cars we wouldnt need most of the laws anyway. So ;-P~~~~ to the rule mongers. You don’t obey because it’s there, you follow it because it makes sense.
Yeah, many rules were made because a motor vehicle is capable of destruction (and has been.) They weren’t made for other types of transport.
But I feel that much of the law breaking is due to the system not being designed for cycling so being left out of things there is no sense that it would benefit you to follow them. (Add to that the inconsistency in laws from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.)
Motorists have far more laws to obey than cyclists. (Most of which they don’t care to know or obey but that’s beside the point.) We can manage the few that apply to cyclists as well.
But what was Yehuda’s big crime?
Many of the traffic lights around here are on-demand lights that don’t respond to a bicycle. They’re a real pain. During rush hour, I’ll wait a short time for a car to arrive and trip the light. At other times, I’ll treat it like a stop sign. Apparently this is legal in Kansas, but I may have some explaining to do here in PA.
I think it’s legal everywhere. If the light doesn’t change when it should, then it’s non-functional, and non-functional lights are supposed to be treated like stop signs. I do the same thing you do, but fortunately I only know of three (widely separated) lights in my area that don’t respond to my bicycle.
Cyclist’s don’t obey the laws? Go to a 4 way stop sign intersection and watch how many cars actually come to a full stop. The next time you’re in your car, drive at the posted speed limit and tell me how many cars pass you. Hint, if car drivers are so law abiding as they claim to be, the answer should be zero. While you’re at it check the percentage of drivers the actually use their turn signals correctly.
Is that the Chevy Tahoe I saw drawn each time?