we have this example display of what the marathon plus is capable in several bike shops. its a small section of the tyre which you can try to pierce with pins. and funnily enough it actually works.
I’ve ridden on RAGBRAI (the annual bike ride across Iowa) twenty-some times and usually at least once during the week some mental midget thinks it’s hilarious to spread thumbtacks, roofing nails, or carpet tacks on the road. So I admit it — there are times when I’ve wanted to do something like this myself.
The trouble is, just as not every cyclist is a reckless irresponsbile jerk, neither is every driver necessarily a gashole. Scattering these indiscriminately would cause more collateral damage than good.
The original caltrops were solid – who was the bright spark who thought of using tubing instead to let the air out more easily? (I know the police use these in their spike-strips they roll out to stop dangerous motorists etc) Yehuda’s type not only let the tyre down, they do it quickly so a crash is almost guaranteed. If Y worked this through, he could be arrested for attempted murder!
Interesting point.
A solid nail (…) can really plug the hole it has made very well. Only a few days ago, I “collected” about 3-4cm long nail from the road – with my rear wheel. However, no flat at first – the nail went through the tyre and punctured the inner tube, but by staying in the hole, it also prevented the air from escaping. I rode on for a while and discovered that “something’s wrong” only by a strange clicking sound – the head of the nail hitting the road as the wheel rolled. After checking the tyre I decided to leave the nail in its place and walk the bike home, as I was already nearby. When I then removed the nail, the tyre went empty in a few seconds.
(by the way)… I’m using sturdy tyres on most of my bikes, so I don’t even remember when was the last time I got a flat thanks to some glass. But I haven’t yet discovered a tyre so tough to stop a 2-inch nail from going in… (if you know such, let me know)
Originallly, caltrops were meant as an anti-personnel device and were effective against both man and horse. It wasn’t until pneumatic tires were invented that the added benefit of immobilizing a vehicle by deflating the tire was discovered.
actually, I thought of using stainless tubing because it was so easy to make razor sharp, plus that whole let the air out of run-flat tires faster after watching an episode of “Car Science” on SPEED. (How to make Your Car a Spy Car)
I would prefer not making things like that at all. Things dangerous by themselves, just by their very existence, capable of “waiting” for their chance to cause trouble looong after their original maker/owner lost control or interest over where they are etc. Like landmines. (UNlike, let’s say, a knife).
In the VERY least (ad absurdum), it is just not needed. There are enough such things already, even in the natural world.
Wouldn’t caltrops stick in the tyre, get carried around and jam against the frame thus damaging the tyre, wheel AND frame – that doesn’t say anything about the damage to the rider when they go over the top!
This is true. Also the ads for Schwalbe Marathon Pluses show them with drawing pins (thumb tacks) in them, so I figure they would cope with metal to some extent.
Bill – sure – coeficient of steel on steel is pretty appalling. Railways (the equivalent of railroads on this side of the Pond) do work; but especially in the days of steam were subject to wheelspin; never managed to accelerate very quickly; and their braking performance would be unacceptable on a road, Works OK on a rail system where starts & stops are choreographed by timetable and (even in crowded Britain) there is normally at least ten miles to wind the speed up and then wind it down again. Horses for courses – wouldn’t like to ride naked steel wheels on a steel road surface – especially not in the wet.
It is also a question of the weight of trains vs that of road traffic. The increased force will raise the coefficient of friction hugely resulting in a better stopping rate. However, like a ship, the mass of a train takes a long time to lose accumulated momentum!
Math much? Coefficients don’t work that way.
The coefficient of friction doesn’t change with the weight of the train. µ depends only upon the materials in contact.
You meant to say: With increased normal force (train weight), the friction force will increase.
I had a friend in the ’70s who had a Volkswagon Microbus that was involved in a collision in the middle of downtown. The vehicle was damaged in such a way that it was impossible to turn right. So he had to map out a route home that involved only left turns. It took a bit longer than usual, but he got there eventually.
Happy Memorial Day folks…
No matter what country you live in, soldiers gave their lives to protect their Country…
If you haven’t done so, go outside and display the flag…Never forget them…
Totally off topic, but I know you folks can appreciate more than most: On my morning “commute” (it’s a big exaggerated circle, I ride .1 miles to work) I saw a fairly large brown bear running around, before the salmon run no less!
I agree with the “no”, not so much with the logic. What you describe is farfetched enough that it is not so removed from normal operation of a car anyhow — the fault is in the choice to drive the big heavy hunk of steel fast in the first place, and not with the cause of the crash.
This is why I love Yehuda. He is the over-the-top, exaggerated version of every cyclng advocate. I have often thought about scattering these around my city. I never would, of course, because of the reasons others have listed here. But I think about it! I also think about putting BBs in valves, painting sharrows everywhere, changing speed limit signs, etc.
Yehuda is great because he keeps me from ending up in jail for felony vandalism!
Hate to sound like a newbie, but I thought Yehuda Moon was no longer being written/drawn. How long have you all be posting pointless/snarky/FIRST! remarks without me?!
If you look at this strip: http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2011-10-08
You can read Rick’s explanation etc and rejoice with us that he has found a way to return to providing us with daily fun on weekdays, having a break at weekends.
We use the Friday strip in the weekend to communicate etc….
No.
Ah… how I like flawed logic in the morning with a cup a black moral moronism.
Like those wouldn’t hurt a bicycle tire?
A Schwabe Marathon Plus could deal
No. (My GF runs them and I the Supremes and the Extremes)
we have this example display of what the marathon plus is capable in several bike shops. its a small section of the tyre which you can try to pierce with pins. and funnily enough it actually works.
I’ve ridden on RAGBRAI (the annual bike ride across Iowa) twenty-some times and usually at least once during the week some mental midget thinks it’s hilarious to spread thumbtacks, roofing nails, or carpet tacks on the road. So I admit it — there are times when I’ve wanted to do something like this myself.
The trouble is, just as not every cyclist is a reckless irresponsbile jerk, neither is every driver necessarily a gashole. Scattering these indiscriminately would cause more collateral damage than good.
The original caltrops were solid – who was the bright spark who thought of using tubing instead to let the air out more easily?
(I know the police use these in their spike-strips they roll out to stop dangerous motorists etc)
Yehuda’s type not only let the tyre down, they do it quickly so a crash is almost guaranteed.
If Y worked this through, he could be arrested for attempted murder!
Interesting point.
A solid nail (…) can really plug the hole it has made very well. Only a few days ago, I “collected” about 3-4cm long nail from the road – with my rear wheel. However, no flat at first – the nail went through the tyre and punctured the inner tube, but by staying in the hole, it also prevented the air from escaping. I rode on for a while and discovered that “something’s wrong” only by a strange clicking sound – the head of the nail hitting the road as the wheel rolled. After checking the tyre I decided to leave the nail in its place and walk the bike home, as I was already nearby. When I then removed the nail, the tyre went empty in a few seconds.
(by the way)… I’m using sturdy tyres on most of my bikes, so I don’t even remember when was the last time I got a flat thanks to some glass. But I haven’t yet discovered a tyre so tough to stop a 2-inch nail from going in… (if you know such, let me know)
Originallly, caltrops were meant as an anti-personnel device and were effective against both man and horse. It wasn’t until pneumatic tires were invented that the added benefit of immobilizing a vehicle by deflating the tire was discovered.
actually, I thought of using stainless tubing because it was so easy to make razor sharp, plus that whole let the air out of run-flat tires faster after watching an episode of “Car Science” on SPEED. (How to make Your Car a Spy Car)
I would prefer not making things like that at all. Things dangerous by themselves, just by their very existence, capable of “waiting” for their chance to cause trouble looong after their original maker/owner lost control or interest over where they are etc. Like landmines. (UNlike, let’s say, a knife).
In the VERY least (ad absurdum), it is just not needed. There are enough such things already, even in the natural world.
Just get glass-proof tyres, works for me
Wouldn’t caltrops stick in the tyre, get carried around and jam against the frame thus damaging the tyre, wheel AND frame – that doesn’t say anything about the damage to the rider when they go over the top!
Glass “proof” tires aren’t metal proof anyway.
I think persia was suggesting that Yehuda get puncture-resistant tires instead of looking for revenge because of the glass on the roads.
This is true. Also the ads for Schwalbe Marathon Pluses show them with drawing pins (thumb tacks) in them, so I figure they would cope with metal to some extent.
This is why Rivendell are re-introducing solid wooden wheels at the next Interbike, to compliment their rugged steel fremes.
Initially available in 700c and 650B sizes, with 26in to follow later.
Veitchy – so, what is the coefficient of friction of wood on tarmac? Just curious….
Alan — what’s the coefficiant of friction for steel wheels on a steel rail? But the railroads seem to make it work.
Bill – sure – coeficient of steel on steel is pretty appalling. Railways (the equivalent of railroads on this side of the Pond) do work; but especially in the days of steam were subject to wheelspin; never managed to accelerate very quickly; and their braking performance would be unacceptable on a road, Works OK on a rail system where starts & stops are choreographed by timetable and (even in crowded Britain) there is normally at least ten miles to wind the speed up and then wind it down again. Horses for courses – wouldn’t like to ride naked steel wheels on a steel road surface – especially not in the wet.
It is also a question of the weight of trains vs that of road traffic. The increased force will raise the coefficient of friction hugely resulting in a better stopping rate. However, like a ship, the mass of a train takes a long time to lose accumulated momentum!
Math much? Coefficients don’t work that way.
The coefficient of friction doesn’t change with the weight of the train. µ depends only upon the materials in contact.
You meant to say: With increased normal force (train weight), the friction force will increase.
Two wrong cannot make it right
But three lefts do!
I had a friend in the ’70s who had a Volkswagon Microbus that was involved in a collision in the middle of downtown. The vehicle was damaged in such a way that it was impossible to turn right. So he had to map out a route home that involved only left turns. It took a bit longer than usual, but he got there eventually.
Happy Memorial Day folks…
No matter what country you live in, soldiers gave their lives to protect their Country…
If you haven’t done so, go outside and display the flag…Never forget them…
Ahh, but those of us in other countries have our own special days for memorials. ANZAC day is mine (25th April)
Totally off topic, but I know you folks can appreciate more than most: On my morning “commute” (it’s a big exaggerated circle, I ride .1 miles to work) I saw a fairly large brown bear running around, before the salmon run no less!
Thanks for letting me tell somebody.
no no no. Just no. Okay, need a good argument, do you? Car gets a blowout, loses control, wipes out innocents including cyclists nearby.
I agree with the “no”, not so much with the logic. What you describe is farfetched enough that it is not so removed from normal operation of a car anyhow — the fault is in the choice to drive the big heavy hunk of steel fast in the first place, and not with the cause of the crash.
Not a good idea Yehuda.
This is why I love Yehuda. He is the over-the-top, exaggerated version of every cyclng advocate. I have often thought about scattering these around my city. I never would, of course, because of the reasons others have listed here. But I think about it! I also think about putting BBs in valves, painting sharrows everywhere, changing speed limit signs, etc.
Yehuda is great because he keeps me from ending up in jail for felony vandalism!
Yes, because vandalism is a great form of advocacy…
It can be…
http://bikeportland.org/2012/01/04/activist-takes-road-hazard-fix-into-own-hands-for-under-20-64616
http://bikeportland.org/2012/01/12/after-activist-action-odot-repaves-danger-spots-on-hall-blvd-65087
but Y’s idea is just bad… Bad… BAD!!!
Hey, I remember that! Well done, citizen!
No, Yehuda. Just… no.
And congrats to Ryder Hesjedal for winning the Giro d’Italia.
Hate to sound like a newbie, but I thought Yehuda Moon was no longer being written/drawn. How long have you all be posting pointless/snarky/FIRST! remarks without me?!
If you look at this strip: http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2011-10-08
You can read Rick’s explanation etc and rejoice with us that he has found a way to return to providing us with daily fun on weekdays, having a break at weekends.
We use the Friday strip in the weekend to communicate etc….