Sound advice – this is what I was told when learning to ride a motorbike: Don’t take the bait, as the driver is probably only looking at you as they wave you out. They’re totally unaware of the other hazards around them.
I try to avoid that so much. I will just wait there looking down at the ground or in the other direction not making eye contact, and normaly end up waving them on, even after they keep trying to wave me on. If it is there turn they need to go. It’s one thing I hate about living in a bike friendy city, some cars thing they are doing something good, when it is super unsafe.
I have been known, when waving them through fails, to give a grumpy face and turn my bike around and pedal away from the intersection untle the moron moves on. It is never an issue at 4way stops for me because it’s not as definitely stupid as when i’m on a side street and they’re stopping on the main road to try and wave me across. That’s the one that gets me riled.
OMG I thought I was the only one that thinks like this. That is like lambs being lead to the slaughter. Evil cagers! Even if I am walking I will not walk infront of them if they wave me on. Then they either look at you all bewildered or they give you an evil look. I say we start yelling at them “You will not take me out that easy cager!” or “These are not the droids you are looking for, Move along”…
I hate it when this happens. It also happens to me when the car has *no* stop sign whatsoever. Worst time occurred when I was on a tiny service road, stopped at stop sign, waiting to cross a 5 lane one-way arterial. Some joker three lanes over stopped and starts waving me across. Ya, right.
Captain Handlebar should invent a sign we can unfurl from our handlebars … what should it, do you figure?
Worse than a 4-way stop is 3 lanes of traffic. a local bike trail crosses many busy roads. While waiting to cross ocassionally a car will stop and wave me through, completely unaware there are two other lanes of traffice NOT stopping and waving me through, (and sometimes coming up behind them very quickly). And yes, the waving drivers do look bewildered.
At 4 way stops I’ve learned to slow well before the stop sign (6 or so feet) and by the time the other car goes through, I’m rolling right after. When there are more than one cars at the intersection, I put a foot down, sometimes I point at the driver and smile. I find that being the ‘alpha’ animal in the pack often works. The smile is the important part.
Putting a foot down is one of the few clear signals cyclists can give to indicate that they have come to a full stop. Being courteous is always a plus. So is treating drivers as fellow humans instead of The Enemy.
This does indeed bring up an important point – and a pet peeve of mine. More time is spent “negotiating” an exception to the rules than would be spent simply following them. If a person has the right of way – they need to take it. If a driver/rider takes an invited exception and an accident occurs because of it – its THEIR fault. No thank you – its your turn to go – GO! Helps prevent traffic backups too.
Agree – people in motors trying to be helpful all too often just slow everyone (includig the cyclists) down, and all too often increase the danger to the cyclist. What’s especially annoying is that pretty much all these people are in fact nice folks who are (maybe misguidedly) trying to be kind. When – as is so often the case – safety demands that we spurn their consideration. I wonder how many feel so rejected that they take it out on other cyclists, or indeed any other category of road user.
I think it’s safe to say that most of us here would probably be considered accomplished cyclists. We need to remember that not everybody out there shares our abilities. There are young people, elderly people, and just plain noobies out there who are not able to take advantage of what (to us) would be an ample gap in traffic to cross, say, a busy street. If I need to give them a little help from inside my vehicle by slowing and waving them across (see my post below), I will do so.
In addition, there is still a lot of misinformation out there by self-proclaimed experts in traffic flow reinforcing the “keep out of the way/streets are for cars only” mindset and relegating bikes to second-class status. Not to mention that even as recently as the 1970s the official doctrine in most states was that cyclists ride as far to the right as possible, up against the curb and gutter (and on the sidewalk for preference) — in other words, keep out of the way of cars or you’re gonna get hurt. It’s only been in the last 25 years or so, since the publication of John Forester’s book “Effective Cycling” in 1984, that the concept of the bicycle as a legitimate vehicle and a part of traffic has started to make headway,
So it’s no wonder the average rider gets confused, receiving so many confusing messages. There is no quick and easy fix.
I have to disagree with you about that one. My Cub Scout Wolf badge manual from 1965 had instructions on VC (they didn’t call it that, it was just How to Ride a Bicycle) and frequently reminded us that bicycles were vehicles. So the concept has been around pretty much forever. It was just forgotten for a while.
One of my worst pet peeves is standing at a side street stop sign on my bike, on the road in the driving lane, and some nimrod, always the last in line of course so he’s the only thing in the way, stops to insist on letting the little lady on her toy cross the road. Like I’m some gradeschool kid at a pedestrian crossing. It’s maddening and made worse yet by the fact that the idiot is of course trying to be a nice person and everyone around you thinks you should just play along with it. Tell me, if this same fool was waving cars through at side streets, would it be so polite? I’m 48 flipping years of life here, most of it from the seat of a bike, and you think I need you to stop and let me through? Ok, the last final reason it angers me so? Because inevitably if they’d just continued in a smooth flow I’d have been across right behind them but now, because of this nonsense, the oncoming traffic opening is shut and I cannot cross at all unless I get off my bike, walk to the corner, and proceed as a pedestrian stopping traffic. It’s never the guy at the front of the pack, after all, it’s always the last one who would have been out of the way a split second later.
Sometimes cyclists are treated like sheep because cyclists act like sheep. Here’s an example that happened to me yesterday.
I was driving (sorry!) and was waiting at a stop sign in order to enter an arterial street. Two riders were on the arterial street’s sidewalk and approaching the crosswalk in order to cross in front of me and started to slow — obvously expecting that I was looking for an opening in traffic and would take the first opportunity to move out and into the flow regardless of their presence. Well, in our area pedestrians in a crosswalk (marked or otherwise) have the right-of-way, at least in theory, so I made eye contact from inside the ‘cage’ and indicated that they should cross in front of me and that I was not going to take away their right-of-way.
In other cases the situation is reverse — I see that a cylist is trying to get across a busy street from a stop sign. IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, I will sometimes slow down or even stop, using my car as a de facto roadblock, to create a gap to permit the cyclist to get through. AND I WILL WAVE HIM ACROSS TO INDICATE MY INTENTIONS.
I keep waiting for someone behind the good Samaritan to miss his brake lights and rear-end him (usually a him … why is that? … women generally cruise right through without a glance … hmmm) when they short stop to do the goodo deed.
I’m also suspicious of this. It happens with car-on-car interactions too where someone who is out to get their car “totaled” to collect insurance money as they can’t afford to fix their old car, waves someone through, then hits them. As they had the right of way it’s the other person’s fault, they calim they never waves the other through and the insurance company pays for their new car.
Also I’m wary of people listening to talk radio, getting all riled up about “those damn cyclists” and then with a fresh Big Gulp in their system they go out to “set things straight”.
My daughter-in-law gets just as upset when she’s driving and somebody who has the right of way tries to wave her through at a 4-way stop. So do I, for that matter. I like things to be predictable. When everybody follows the rules, everybody knows what to expect. When someone starts making up new rules on the spot, everyone gets confused and unpredictable things happen, also known as “accidents.”
Sound advice – this is what I was told when learning to ride a motorbike: Don’t take the bait, as the driver is probably only looking at you as they wave you out. They’re totally unaware of the other hazards around them.
I try to avoid that so much. I will just wait there looking down at the ground or in the other direction not making eye contact, and normaly end up waving them on, even after they keep trying to wave me on. If it is there turn they need to go. It’s one thing I hate about living in a bike friendy city, some cars thing they are doing something good, when it is super unsafe.
I have been known, when waving them through fails, to give a grumpy face and turn my bike around and pedal away from the intersection untle the moron moves on. It is never an issue at 4way stops for me because it’s not as definitely stupid as when i’m on a side street and they’re stopping on the main road to try and wave me across. That’s the one that gets me riled.
Yeah, who’s in charge out there, after all?
The nerve!
This is one of my pet peeves. I know the driver is trying to be “nice”. However I just wish they’d follow the rukes of the 4-way stop.
It’s especially bad if there are other cars. They have no idea of what to do.
“Virtue is persecuted by the wicked more than it is loved by the good.”
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra – Don Quixote
OMG I thought I was the only one that thinks like this. That is like lambs being lead to the slaughter. Evil cagers! Even if I am walking I will not walk infront of them if they wave me on. Then they either look at you all bewildered or they give you an evil look. I say we start yelling at them “You will not take me out that easy cager!” or “These are not the droids you are looking for, Move along”…
I don’t wave until it’s clear nobody knows who has right of way next, and I do it for automobiles. For bicycles, well…
As for when I ride, I usually wave other cars through, since I’d rather not be clipped in and accelerating when some car decides to roll out.
Where is Fizz?
Kindergarten?
I hate it when this happens. It also happens to me when the car has *no* stop sign whatsoever. Worst time occurred when I was on a tiny service road, stopped at stop sign, waiting to cross a 5 lane one-way arterial. Some joker three lanes over stopped and starts waving me across. Ya, right.
Captain Handlebar should invent a sign we can unfurl from our handlebars … what should it, do you figure?
It should say, “THANKS, but just pretend I’m a semi-truck”
Worse than a 4-way stop is 3 lanes of traffic. a local bike trail crosses many busy roads. While waiting to cross ocassionally a car will stop and wave me through, completely unaware there are two other lanes of traffice NOT stopping and waving me through, (and sometimes coming up behind them very quickly). And yes, the waving drivers do look bewildered.
At 4 way stops I’ve learned to slow well before the stop sign (6 or so feet) and by the time the other car goes through, I’m rolling right after. When there are more than one cars at the intersection, I put a foot down, sometimes I point at the driver and smile. I find that being the ‘alpha’ animal in the pack often works. The smile is the important part.
The smile is always the important part.
Putting a foot down is one of the few clear signals cyclists can give to indicate that they have come to a full stop. Being courteous is always a plus. So is treating drivers as fellow humans instead of The Enemy.
This does indeed bring up an important point – and a pet peeve of mine. More time is spent “negotiating” an exception to the rules than would be spent simply following them. If a person has the right of way – they need to take it. If a driver/rider takes an invited exception and an accident occurs because of it – its THEIR fault. No thank you – its your turn to go – GO! Helps prevent traffic backups too.
Agree – people in motors trying to be helpful all too often just slow everyone (includig the cyclists) down, and all too often increase the danger to the cyclist. What’s especially annoying is that pretty much all these people are in fact nice folks who are (maybe misguidedly) trying to be kind. When – as is so often the case – safety demands that we spurn their consideration. I wonder how many feel so rejected that they take it out on other cyclists, or indeed any other category of road user.
It’s an imperfect world….
I think it’s safe to say that most of us here would probably be considered accomplished cyclists. We need to remember that not everybody out there shares our abilities. There are young people, elderly people, and just plain noobies out there who are not able to take advantage of what (to us) would be an ample gap in traffic to cross, say, a busy street. If I need to give them a little help from inside my vehicle by slowing and waving them across (see my post below), I will do so.
In addition, there is still a lot of misinformation out there by self-proclaimed experts in traffic flow reinforcing the “keep out of the way/streets are for cars only” mindset and relegating bikes to second-class status. Not to mention that even as recently as the 1970s the official doctrine in most states was that cyclists ride as far to the right as possible, up against the curb and gutter (and on the sidewalk for preference) — in other words, keep out of the way of cars or you’re gonna get hurt. It’s only been in the last 25 years or so, since the publication of John Forester’s book “Effective Cycling” in 1984, that the concept of the bicycle as a legitimate vehicle and a part of traffic has started to make headway,
So it’s no wonder the average rider gets confused, receiving so many confusing messages. There is no quick and easy fix.
I have to disagree with you about that one. My Cub Scout Wolf badge manual from 1965 had instructions on VC (they didn’t call it that, it was just How to Ride a Bicycle) and frequently reminded us that bicycles were vehicles. So the concept has been around pretty much forever. It was just forgotten for a while.
One of my worst pet peeves is standing at a side street stop sign on my bike, on the road in the driving lane, and some nimrod, always the last in line of course so he’s the only thing in the way, stops to insist on letting the little lady on her toy cross the road. Like I’m some gradeschool kid at a pedestrian crossing. It’s maddening and made worse yet by the fact that the idiot is of course trying to be a nice person and everyone around you thinks you should just play along with it. Tell me, if this same fool was waving cars through at side streets, would it be so polite? I’m 48 flipping years of life here, most of it from the seat of a bike, and you think I need you to stop and let me through? Ok, the last final reason it angers me so? Because inevitably if they’d just continued in a smooth flow I’d have been across right behind them but now, because of this nonsense, the oncoming traffic opening is shut and I cannot cross at all unless I get off my bike, walk to the corner, and proceed as a pedestrian stopping traffic. It’s never the guy at the front of the pack, after all, it’s always the last one who would have been out of the way a split second later.
@Yolanda: Sounds like it’s time for a ride. A nice long one.
No need to get angry at such folks or to take it personally. They may be misguided, but they’re just trying to be helpful, not judgemental.
Sometimes cyclists are treated like sheep because cyclists act like sheep. Here’s an example that happened to me yesterday.
I was driving (sorry!) and was waiting at a stop sign in order to enter an arterial street. Two riders were on the arterial street’s sidewalk and approaching the crosswalk in order to cross in front of me and started to slow — obvously expecting that I was looking for an opening in traffic and would take the first opportunity to move out and into the flow regardless of their presence. Well, in our area pedestrians in a crosswalk (marked or otherwise) have the right-of-way, at least in theory, so I made eye contact from inside the ‘cage’ and indicated that they should cross in front of me and that I was not going to take away their right-of-way.
In other cases the situation is reverse — I see that a cylist is trying to get across a busy street from a stop sign. IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, I will sometimes slow down or even stop, using my car as a de facto roadblock, to create a gap to permit the cyclist to get through. AND I WILL WAVE HIM ACROSS TO INDICATE MY INTENTIONS.
I keep waiting for someone behind the good Samaritan to miss his brake lights and rear-end him (usually a him … why is that? … women generally cruise right through without a glance … hmmm) when they short stop to do the goodo deed.
I’m also suspicious of this. It happens with car-on-car interactions too where someone who is out to get their car “totaled” to collect insurance money as they can’t afford to fix their old car, waves someone through, then hits them. As they had the right of way it’s the other person’s fault, they calim they never waves the other through and the insurance company pays for their new car.
Also I’m wary of people listening to talk radio, getting all riled up about “those damn cyclists” and then with a fresh Big Gulp in their system they go out to “set things straight”.
But maybe I’m just paranoid.
My daughter-in-law gets just as upset when she’s driving and somebody who has the right of way tries to wave her through at a 4-way stop. So do I, for that matter. I like things to be predictable. When everybody follows the rules, everybody knows what to expect. When someone starts making up new rules on the spot, everyone gets confused and unpredictable things happen, also known as “accidents.”