A customer of mine loves the raucous noise his older Campag hub makes, because he likes psyching out his competitors in races by sprinting really hard to catch them up and then stopping pedalling just behind them. Their first idea that he’s there is when the hub noisily starts buzzing from just behind their back wheel, as he coasts past them.
I was always wondering WTF with those noisy hubs. Now I know: they’re “high end” noisy hubs… LOL. I guess you need to own one of those hubs yourself to appreciate it, otherwise they just sound like annoying piece of junk.
I must have been ahead of my time; one of my early bikes had steel rims with little ‘perforations’ (I guess that’s what you’d call them) along the braking surface. Not only did I get the buzz of the freewheel when coasting, I also got a “zizzing” noise from the rims when braking. Double the racket for little or no additional money!!
I just don’t get it – noise means friction, friction means inefficiency. Isn’t that anathema to a high-end road racer? What’s the use of paying $500 to shave 50 grams from your drivetrain if you then add friction?
Then again, I’m a touring cyclist – I see the world at 8mph and carry a cast-iron skillet in my panniers, so this is all a mystery anyway.
Hugi hubs and Campy hubs had the best buzz ever. Chris King has the worst. Yes, the hubs are indestructible, but the swarm of bees sound would drive me mad.
Packing a freehub with grease so that it’s quiet causes the pawls to only grip about half of the tooth, resulting in early failure from worn off half-teeth. It also can cause the freehub to slip in cold weather as the grease solidifies. Yeah, it’s quiet that way. Woop.
The use of “meh” seems to be changing. I’ve only seen it used to express something like indifference but here Joe is not only interested but has an opinion to express. Is “meh” coming to be a filler word like “uh”?
Only if they are running dry or only have a thin oil in them. I found that if I used the right weight oil they would gently click, but it wouldn’t be too noisy.
But seriously, whether backward or forward, if anything mechanical is noisy it means energy is being lost in generating the sound. Even fit cyclists don’t have a high energy output, so noise elimination could well give you the vital edge in a race or time trial.
Hubs make noise while coasting because of the ratcheting mechanism they contain, and by design, nearly all ratchets will make some noise. While you are pedaling, there is virtually no energy lost because the pawls inside the ratchet engage the hub shell. The energy “lost” to noise while coasting is infintessimal c.f. drag, rolling resistance, and other factors. But I like where your head is at.
Unfortunately, the buzz that a Rohloff makes while pedalling in 7th gear is due to the full engagement of two sets of planetary gears that are not perfect so the teeth rub instead of ‘rolling’. A perfect gear tooth will simply meet and ‘roll’ along its mating tooth. No friction etc. As a perfect tooth is impossible to make (I used to service gear measuring machines and have worked in Britain’s standards labs on the machine they use there) There is a ‘Master’ against which all measuring machines are calibrated. It was made at John Brown in Huddersfield. They made it too perfect as without a known error to check for, the measuring machine may have locked-up and say every gear it measures is ‘perfect’! So they carefully introduced a microscopic error! Vehicle gears in general are made to a reasonable standard but the least used ratios – Reverse etc – are not finished to such a fine standard as the most used teeth.
Gears can be made nearly silent – My Dad used to assemble the Daimler limousine gearboxes and he used a fine cutting paste to fun them in. It erodes any rubbing parts until they don’t rub, just roll and work silently.
His boast was that when a Limo’ went by, all you heard was the tyres on the ground.
These silent boxes are not perfect gears though as there is a lot of backlash as a result of the running-in.
Planetary gears like Rohloff’s have so many cogs meshing that it would be a miracle if one was silent.
2 sets of 7-speed planetary units that connect to give 14 gears. When connected they have twice the drag and an audible ‘whir’ at the very least when being ridden. The freewheel pawls are no different to that of a single-speed freewheel or a freehub, so they click as the pawls make contact in use.
I have a feature idea/request. Sometimes, while using the easy-read feature, I find a strip that makes me want to see its comments (what can I say, I’m a sucker for helmet flamewars). To do so requires I note the date the comic was posted, then click back to the “normal” view, and then finding it in the drop-down menu. What would be more convenient is if I could just click on the comic from easy view to see it with comments. Not a pressing issue, I know, but I think it could be a handy issue.
I can do both – great ideas! But it likely won’t be for another week or so… I’m still busy sketching books for Kickstarter readers. Only 100 more to go…
I’m really glad they come in those resealable plastic bags. By opening them carefully, I can put the books back in and reseal them after I finish reading through them, and they’ll stay in great condition. My copy of Volume 1 still looks just as new in its plastic as the three new volumes that arrived today. I also think it’s great that the sketches are on pages bound into the books rather than on loose sheets. That will help keep them in good condition, too.
I have a reasonably quiet hub, which I really like, especially on rides alone. The noisy hubs make me crazy, unless I’m on a group ride. The noisy hubs in front of me tell me people are coasting and/or braking before I notice the pace change. That’s yet another reason not to wear earbuds in a group.
on the topic of noisy/quiet hubs… the guy here in SD that built my wheels told me that a hub that is all but silent probably has too much grease in it… as others have said the noise is from the racheting system and the more engagement point the more noise (King ahas something like 72 points of engagement)… if the hub is so packed full of grease that it is silent, you gotta wonder how much it’s gumming up the rotation and dragging… I’m sure different hubs are different, but it kind of made sense when he told me that… of course no lube in the freehub is bad as well so….
Do you put grease in your car’s gearbox?
A car puts a lot more torque through it than your bike does. So use oil instead?
Okay, it only works if you also clean it regularly, like monthly at the least but weekly if you commute.
The right oil will result in an almost silent mechanism
(I know it is a ratcheting mech’ but oil will help it run smoothly)
The “Swarm of Bees”.
A customer of mine loves the raucous noise his older Campag hub makes, because he likes psyching out his competitors in races by sprinting really hard to catch them up and then stopping pedalling just behind them. Their first idea that he’s there is when the hub noisily starts buzzing from just behind their back wheel, as he coasts past them.
: P
Met a guy from Chris King’s components today…. Next time I see him, I’ll have to bring this comic up.
New Rohloff hubs are known to have this problem
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/
See ‘Disadvantages’ here: http://www.santosbikes.com/index.php/en/about-us/48-rohloff
My Rohloff now is 6 years old. After each change of oil it became less noisy and now it’s silent.
My Rohloff now is 6 years old. After each change of oil it became less noisy and now it’s silent.
My Rohloff now is 6 years old. After each change of oil it became less noisy and now it’s silent.
My Rohloff now is 6 years old. After each change of oil it became less noisy and now it’s silent.
What’s “coasting”?
Oh, if you ride a fixie you wouldn’t know, I guess. It’s a wonderful invention found on modern bikes, along gears, brakes, etc.
Fixie would be good crosstraining though. Definitely a different way to ride.
I was always wondering WTF with those noisy hubs. Now I know: they’re “high end” noisy hubs… LOL. I guess you need to own one of those hubs yourself to appreciate it, otherwise they just sound like annoying piece of junk.
I must have been ahead of my time; one of my early bikes had steel rims with little ‘perforations’ (I guess that’s what you’d call them) along the braking surface. Not only did I get the buzz of the freewheel when coasting, I also got a “zizzing” noise from the rims when braking. Double the racket for little or no additional money!!
The patterned surface was intended to improve wet-weather braking. I doubt that it did, but it certainly makes a screaming racket when you’re braking!
I just don’t get it – noise means friction, friction means inefficiency. Isn’t that anathema to a high-end road racer? What’s the use of paying $500 to shave 50 grams from your drivetrain if you then add friction?
Then again, I’m a touring cyclist – I see the world at 8mph and carry a cast-iron skillet in my panniers, so this is all a mystery anyway.
Yeah I agree with Joe, that noise is to tell you to pedal that is why it is on the highend hubs because those with lowend are not usually in a race.
to Bzzzz or not to Bzzzz… that is the question!
Can something Bzzzz done about it???
Ride Sally Ride
I had Velocult replace the free hub part on my 105. They did a nice job, packed in grease … total silence.
Yeah, I break stuff like this.
Hope hubs are this way too. I like the buzzing on the mountain bike on the downhills.
The faster the buzz, the higher the speed.
Hugi hubs and Campy hubs had the best buzz ever. Chris King has the worst. Yes, the hubs are indestructible, but the swarm of bees sound would drive me mad.
Packing a freehub with grease so that it’s quiet causes the pawls to only grip about half of the tooth, resulting in early failure from worn off half-teeth. It also can cause the freehub to slip in cold weather as the grease solidifies. Yeah, it’s quiet that way. Woop.
The use of “meh” seems to be changing. I’ve only seen it used to express something like indifference but here Joe is not only interested but has an opinion to express. Is “meh” coming to be a filler word like “uh”?
Business card and a clothespin = cheap hub upgrade!
If a loud hub = high end hub, then my Sturmey Archer AW must be top-dollar kit!
Only if they are running dry or only have a thin oil in them. I found that if I used the right weight oil they would gently click, but it wouldn’t be too noisy.
If you cycle backwards, do they go zzub – zzub?
But seriously, whether backward or forward, if anything mechanical is noisy it means energy is being lost in generating the sound. Even fit cyclists don’t have a high energy output, so noise elimination could well give you the vital edge in a race or time trial.
Hubs make noise while coasting because of the ratcheting mechanism they contain, and by design, nearly all ratchets will make some noise. While you are pedaling, there is virtually no energy lost because the pawls inside the ratchet engage the hub shell. The energy “lost” to noise while coasting is infintessimal c.f. drag, rolling resistance, and other factors. But I like where your head is at.
Unfortunately, the buzz that a Rohloff makes while pedalling in 7th gear is due to the full engagement of two sets of planetary gears that are not perfect so the teeth rub instead of ‘rolling’. A perfect gear tooth will simply meet and ‘roll’ along its mating tooth. No friction etc. As a perfect tooth is impossible to make (I used to service gear measuring machines and have worked in Britain’s standards labs on the machine they use there) There is a ‘Master’ against which all measuring machines are calibrated. It was made at John Brown in Huddersfield. They made it too perfect as without a known error to check for, the measuring machine may have locked-up and say every gear it measures is ‘perfect’! So they carefully introduced a microscopic error!
Vehicle gears in general are made to a reasonable standard but the least used ratios – Reverse etc – are not finished to such a fine standard as the most used teeth.
Gears can be made nearly silent – My Dad used to assemble the Daimler limousine gearboxes and he used a fine cutting paste to fun them in. It erodes any rubbing parts until they don’t rub, just roll and work silently.
His boast was that when a Limo’ went by, all you heard was the tyres on the ground.
These silent boxes are not perfect gears though as there is a lot of backlash as a result of the running-in.
Planetary gears like Rohloff’s have so many cogs meshing that it would be a miracle if one was silent.
2 sets of 7-speed planetary units that connect to give 14 gears. When connected they have twice the drag and an audible ‘whir’ at the very least when being ridden. The freewheel pawls are no different to that of a single-speed freewheel or a freehub, so they click as the pawls make contact in use.
I have a feature idea/request. Sometimes, while using the easy-read feature, I find a strip that makes me want to see its comments (what can I say, I’m a sucker for helmet flamewars). To do so requires I note the date the comic was posted, then click back to the “normal” view, and then finding it in the drop-down menu. What would be more convenient is if I could just click on the comic from easy view to see it with comments. Not a pressing issue, I know, but I think it could be a handy issue.
While you are at it, 1 whole year at a time is a lot. Could you display 1 month (January) with links to the other month?
I can do both – great ideas! But it likely won’t be for another week or so… I’m still busy sketching books for Kickstarter readers. Only 100 more to go…
Speaking of which, I just got mine today. Great job, as usual!
Glad you like them. They turned out great. The printer does a wonderful job.
I’m really glad they come in those resealable plastic bags. By opening them carefully, I can put the books back in and reseal them after I finish reading through them, and they’ll stay in great condition. My copy of Volume 1 still looks just as new in its plastic as the three new volumes that arrived today. I also think it’s great that the sketches are on pages bound into the books rather than on loose sheets. That will help keep them in good condition, too.
I have a reasonably quiet hub, which I really like, especially on rides alone. The noisy hubs make me crazy, unless I’m on a group ride. The noisy hubs in front of me tell me people are coasting and/or braking before I notice the pace change. That’s yet another reason not to wear earbuds in a group.
on the topic of noisy/quiet hubs… the guy here in SD that built my wheels told me that a hub that is all but silent probably has too much grease in it… as others have said the noise is from the racheting system and the more engagement point the more noise (King ahas something like 72 points of engagement)… if the hub is so packed full of grease that it is silent, you gotta wonder how much it’s gumming up the rotation and dragging… I’m sure different hubs are different, but it kind of made sense when he told me that… of course no lube in the freehub is bad as well so….
Meow, meow, meow, meeeeeeooooowwwwwww!!
Do you put grease in your car’s gearbox?
A car puts a lot more torque through it than your bike does. So use oil instead?
Okay, it only works if you also clean it regularly, like monthly at the least but weekly if you commute.
The right oil will result in an almost silent mechanism
(I know it is a ratcheting mech’ but oil will help it run smoothly)
I don’t have any experience with freehubs, but if my freewheel didn’t click when I’m coasting, I’d think it was broken!