@ jon4t2 – Don’t knock it. Every smoker I know (in France, UK, Ireland, Switzerland and Germany) say that smoking bans are a great idea now they have got used to the practicalities.
Every non-smoker I know is ecstatic!
@ jon4t2 – Don’t knock it. Every smoker I know (in France, UK, Ireland, Switzerland and Germany) say that smoking bans are a great idea now they have got used to the practicalities.
Every non-smoker I know is ecstatic!
Her clothes would smell like an ashtray, her teeth would have brown/black stains etc – In short, she would only appeal to smokers IMHO
Leaving-out the images of course – no smell to those. That’s why film stars get away with it! Many of them were described as ‘smelly’ after someone met them in the flesh… Pity that tobacco companies sponser them to ‘push’ their images when smoking
Oh-oh … all of you anti-smoking Nazis are starting to sound like haters. Let he who is without sin throw the first ashtray. I don’t smoke, wife does, somehow we manage to maintain domestic bliss. Go figure.
I am glad for you Dale – I hope you don’t mind when your wife starts the decline? (Sorry)
Many of my most loved family members died of smoking-related deseases long before their time so I have a reduced tolerance to smokers who insist on polluting my air and making me into a ‘passive smoker’
Those who pollute their children’s air are unforgiveable to me….
Smoke-free since August 21, 2006. Can’t stand the smell now. I try not to be that “indignant ex-smoker”, but if I’m around someone who smells of cigarettes, I’ll put enough distance between us. Uck.
@ Dale in Indy My girl friend does smoke too. It’s OK now… She smokes in the kitchen. It was more difficult for me when I quit smoking 5 years ago, after, phew, 18 years of self-intoxication.
@JX75 – (Lightly) The GF smokes in the kitchen? So the carcinogens are left stuck to the cutlery/plates etc and the food as well!
I am not proud about a lifetime of fear and loathing (myself) Just saying that I may have followed my parents and other family members and become another smoking statistic, if I hadn’t seen the blue-green lung of a 24 year old woman, that cancer killed, in my teen years. THAT made me give up smoking!
My Sister-in-Law is a Nurse and is in charge at our Childrens hospital. She smokes and goes outside to do so. (Yes, she stinks of smoke when she comes back in too) Some people have the Genetic predisposition to get cancer and smoking can trigger it. Others resist cancer for 80+ years with no health problems. There is a spectrum and we all fall somewhere on the scale. Who wants to test where they fit in?
@JX75 – (Lightly) The GF smokes in the kitchen? So the carcinogens are left stuck to the cutlery/plates etc and the food as well!
I am not proud about a lifetime of fear and loathing (myself) Just saying that I may have followed my parents and other family members and become another smoking statistic, if I hadn’t seen the blue-green lung of a 24 year old woman, that cancer killed, in my teen years. THAT made me give up smoking!
My Sister-in-Law is a Nurse and is in charge at our Childrens hospital. She smokes and goes outside to do so. (Yes, she stinks of smoke when she comes back in too) Some people have the Genetic predisposition to get cancer and smoking can trigger it. Others resist cancer for 80+ years with no health problems. There is a spectrum and we all fall somewhere on the scale. Who wants to test where they fit in?
@mongo: The so-called Nazi trouble starts when you give politicians and bureaucrats the power to punish people for using a legal product that is taxed by those same politicians and bureaucrats. If it’s so vile and such a health risk, then ban its sale. Puure and simple. It’s pure B.S. to allow the sale of tobacco while simultaneously banning its use in public. It’s an admission by the politicos that it can’t be stopped, so they might as well get a piece of the action.
Nicely said. My point above, however, had more to do with the fact that a lot of folks just seem to enjoy stirring the pot for the sake of making sanctimonious pronouncements, as opposed to seeing this for what it is, a fun site to talk about a cartoon, and share a common love of cycling. I was trying to do this in a semi-humorous manner; my apologies to any I’ve offended, but ya’all need to lighten up.
The problem with prohibition was amply proven a hundred years or so ago. We can’t go there. Even if we stop it being imported, it will be brought in illegally just like cannabis etc. Education is the only answer and stopping tobacco being glamorised in schools as ‘cool’ may help – not with a heavy hand, I hasten to add, but by education! Not allowing TV/Films any possibility of showing smoking might help too, as people adolise their stars and emulate their screen persona.
@mongo: The so-called Nazi trouble starts when you give politicians and bureaucrats the power to punish people for using a legal product that is taxed by those same politicians and bureaucrats. If it’s so vile and such a health risk, then ban its sale. Puure and simple. It’s pure B.S. to allow the sale of tobacco while simultaneously banning its use in public. It’s an admission by the politicos that it can’t be stopped, so they might as well get a piece of the action.
Nicely said. My point above, however, had more to do with the fact that a lot of folks just seem to enjoy stirring the pot for the sake of making sanctimonious pronouncements, as opposed to seeing this for what it is, a fun site to talk about a cartoon, and share a common love of cycling. I was trying to do this in a semi-humorous manner; my apologies to any I’ve offended, but ya’all need to lighten up.
The problem with prohibition was amply proven a hundred years or so ago. We can’t go there. Even if we stop it being imported, it will be brought in illegally just like cannabis etc. Education is the only answer and stopping tobacco being glamorised in schools as ‘cool’ may help – not with a heavy hand, I hasten to add, but by education! Not allowing TV/Films any possibility of showing smoking might help too, as people adolise their stars and emulate their screen persona.
Those are the gear ratios provided by the hub. You also have a chainring and cog to contend with. So, for example, if your ever beloved tank ^G Pashley has a 42 tooth chainring and a 16 tooth cog you’ve got ratios of 1.64, 1.97, 2.63, 3.50 and 4.22 (done with old eyes and a slide rule, maybe not good to 3 sigfig)
So ‘Pi’ = 2 these days? (and just because you have 2 wheels doesn’t mean you add them together
‘Wheel Inches’ is the effective Dia of the wheel as if it was a ‘penny-farthing’, where one turn of the cranks=one of the wheel. Dia of that wheel is the ‘gear inches’ for most purposes. (Ratio of crank to sprocket) x current wheel Dia is the formula for that one. See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_g.html
Pi doesn’t enter into it when you already know the wheel diameter = x (I assumed x = 2527″ given sprocket has a pretty standard looking bike) and the chainring to cog ratio = 2 in Sprocket’s case.
If you’re calculating from the wheel circumference as in the roll-out method, then you need to divide by pi to get the diameter.
RG I was just joking about ‘Pi=2′ etc. Your comment about SS case with 2:1 gearing is accurate, as 1 crank rev = 2 wheel revs in that case. (Yes, I had forgotten about SS’ gearing when I made my post yesterday, Sorry)
Before you can legitimately call my Pashley Sovereign Roadster a “tank,” you have to take the Kevin Love challenge.
Suppose that you are me, riding your bike to work, get groceries, etc. You live in Toronto, which definitely has weather.
Here is a list of the factory-standard features that the bike comes with. If you think my bike is too heavy, here’s the challenge: which items would you get rid of?
Full fenders
Chaincase
Coatguard
Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres
Front and rear lights, front light dynamo powered
Brooks B33 saddle
Double top tube
Integral rear wheel lock
Tyre pump with integral pump holder
Centre kickstand
“Girlfriend” style Rear rack with spring-loaded rat-trap style cargo holder
Two-tone bell
Rear fender reflector
Sturmey-Archer 5-speed Internal Hub Gears
Fully-enclosed internal hub brakes
I’ll give you a freebe: I already got rid of the tyre pump, since the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres have never, ever got a puncture.
That pump is feeble, but I can’t get rid of mine because of looks though. I used to have a centre kickstand (Pletscher two-legger) but it failed on me, so now I am back to the stock fold-down. Which brings me to my point: that rack looks like it’s massively durable, but look at the thin bendable sheet metal connecting to the fork ends. Will it really support a 120 lb “girlfriend-mk1″?
Oh, and it’s silly to list Pashley components and ask people to get rid of stuff. All Dutch- and English-style Roadster bikes weigh about that much–50-60 lbs, depending on brand. Given infinite money and custom order, you could have the same exact bike weigh 40-42 lbs and be as strong. But for $1400 USD, the Pashley is hard to beat.
My only real complaint: why did they have to put in a 2.4W front dynamo? That really limits things for the end-user. Why not put in a 3.0W with a 3.0W halogen bulb?
I’d lose the double top tube. I MIGHT replace the integral rear wheel lock with a cable and padlock or a U lock, which is hardly a weight savings. Going to a one tone bell from a two-tone bell is a a paltry weight savings for the expense of a new bell. But then I’m a little weird — I live in an area where beach cruisers are actually ridden on the beach….
I actually do use a U-lock in addition to the integral rear lock for situations where I’m not in sight of the bike. In other words, If I’m at a shop where I can keep an eye on the bike through the front window, I’ll only use the rear wheel lock.
For situations where I’m leaving it outside for long periods at night I’ll also bring along a great big thick chain and enormous padlock – the chain will barely fit through the spokes of the wheels. I don’t even want to think about what it weighs, but I’ve still got my bike. Fortunately, that’s rare. I normally ride along with just the U-lock.
The double top tube provides great strength. I’m over two M tall and weigh over 110 kg. Add on another 40 kg of groceries and I need a strong bike. I wouldn’t get rid of the top tube.
With that size chain (barely fits through spokes!?), you also gain the advantage of not having to find anything to lock your bike to. That plus bike weight is animmovable object.
You realize that they do make fenders and racks for modern lightweight bikes too, right? Even a lightweight full plastic chainguard is not that big of a deal to retrofit on pretty much any bike that weighs half as much as one of those conduit tanks.
Ok, here goes. I’m me, I ride to work, the grocery, everything. I don’t live in Toronto, but Portland where we have “weather” too. Admittedly there is limited snow, which would be the only substantively different thing. On to your list: Full fenders Got ‘em but in plastic Chaincase Nope, and I’ve yet to get a pants cuff caught, in part because I sometimes use a lightweight Velcro strap. less than 0.2 oz Coatguard nope, again, never had any trouble Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres Conti Gator skins. Front and rear lights, front light dynamo powered Yep, battery operated bar (nightrider 700*) and helmet mounted (planet bike). Never had problems with batteries. I also run two rear lights. *My understanding is that your pashley light is a Busch and Muller lumotec and puts out …60 lumens? 65? AND doesn’t offer a flashing option? Brooks B33 saddle B17 Double top tube one’s enough for me. Integral rear wheel lock kryptonite on handy frame holder. Tyre pump with integral pump holder CO2 cartridge, spare tubes, etc in seat bag Centre kickstand none, just use your pedal on a convenient curb “Girlfriend” style Rear rack with spring-loaded rat-trap style cargo holder Rear rack, with rat trap style and bungee cords. Girlfriend can haul herself. Two-tone bell one tone is ok, I’m not sending Morse coded messages. . . which I could do with one tone, if I knew Morse code. Rear fender reflector one on rack Sturmey-Archer 5-speed Internal Hub Gears Typical derailleur set up. Occasional lubrication and cleaning every few months, takes 5 minutes on average. Indexed, no trouble to date, 14 gears but I use fewer regularly Fully-enclosed internal hub brakes rim brakes, kool stop pads, occasionally I’ll clean the rims.
The Bottom Line: total weight of 27 lbs or 20 lbs under Pashley list weight, essentially the same functionality and it was probably a ton cheaper regardless of how you figure the cost (absolute, per mile, or cost per ride).
Result: Get rid of the Pashley (tank), save a lot of weight
Here’s my list, not of things that come with the bike but what I have to buy separately with each new bike:
fenders
lights
rack
comfortable saddle
bell
kickstand (for some bikes)
pedals (for other bikes)
shoes (depending on the pedals)
good lock
water bottle cage
component locking system
@ ‘reqired’: Hey, anotherone, who still uses slide rules I wouldn’t miss mine when I was in Abitur some 30 y ago (elecrical calcuzlators were allowed) and I still use it. It’s best ever for relations. Being short-sighted AND starting to become old-sighted I’m still able to read 4 numbers up to 5.x on a 30 cm scale (above 6.0 there are only 3 numbers left to be readable).
I’m pretty naive when it comes to the mechanics of bikes. I keep my Diamondback Wildwood Citi in a very high gear, rarely switching to low gear. I walk up hills; I’ve never had the strength or stamina to ride them, even in first gear. The good [sic] sister is a dynamo. I am not.
Similar to what my mother rides. I borrow that bike sometimes for close-range town errands quite often… soooo comfortable! ) (and while I’m riding it, I “listen” and feel in what condition the bike is – so I can fix problems later, should there be any, as I’m the “family mechanic”. Mom almost never notices/reports maintenance issues, until something falls off… better to check the bike myself from time to time, and what better way to check a bike than riding it? some “dry” check in a garage never works that well… but I’m already digressing )
I can carry more on my bicycle than some people can carry in the trunks of their cars. I’m a wizard with bungee cords and distributing load weights evenly…lol.
I rode through that flood water…it was brrrry cold, still wintertime. Put on my water sandals, rolled up my jeans, and away I went. I have a video of the ride on Youtube if you’re interested.
One of “my” eagles, not far from me. They know me, as I used to ride out to their tree nearly every day. I need to get out there soon…bet there are eaglets in the nest. I love living here…the bald eagles are proliferous.
They don’t inhale, so instead of lung cancer, they get lip and throat cancers…. What I find interesting is that she would light up in the shop, I thought the shop was in Cleveland and Ohio has a workplace smoking ban, which would make it illegal. There’s a way for YM. to get back at SS, rat her out on the smoking law….
Yes, cancers of the mouth are an increased risk for pipe and cigar smokers. Freud had his upper palate removed after years of smoking cigars, and needed a prosthetic. Sometimes a cigar is just a… carcinogen-delivery device.
My singlespeed commuter has a 2:1 gear ratio (at one time, it was 1.6:1). I can average 1617 mph from door to door when I’m motivated (i.e., running late). I’ve coasted past more than one hipster on their high geared fixies on the long flat straightaways, so it doesn’t seem to be holding me back. The low gearing also allows me to cruise along at 6-8 mph comfortably, climb hills in the saddle with a load & a headwind, and to accelerate through intersections quickly.I’m not willing to sacrifice the wide performance envelope in order to increase my top speed, since most of my riding is not done at top speed.
I’ve ridden with sedate group rides using my mom’s Schwinn Suburban step through “middleweight” with Shimano Positron shifting. Kept the fenders on, added a front basket. On one fifty mile (approx.) ride, the roadies appreciated that while I wasn’t the first one up the big grade, I wasn’t the last either. Then when we took the Coyote Creek path back to the start, I took the lead into the headwind…. It’s a great city riding sort of bike, and the performance is ludicrously nice on well-maintained unpaved roads.
Schwinn Suburban! Nice bike. I like the electro-forged Schwinns made in their Chicago factory. I’ve still got the Schwinn that |I bought at the age of 16, and it still works just fine. There’s a Schwinn catalogue photo of the Suburban here:
“Lightweight bike for girls”…lolololololol. Wish mine were! It’s the one detail that keeps me from putting it on the bus to spend the day in Bellingham doing Bellingham-type activities more often; it’s so blooming heavy. It’s all I can do to get it up onto the bus rack, and by the end of the day, my forearms are badly bruised by using them to lift the bike. Taking away the accessories isn’t an option…I need everything that’s on it. Love the bikes on that site…thanks for sharing.
I live in Sumas. I’m hoping to move to the ‘Ham, but it might be a while, if it happens at all. I love the energy there and would love to participate in so much, but unfortunately, the last bus back to Sumas leaves at six o’clock…just when things start happenin’. I gave away my van and don’t drive; the bus and my bike usually suffice, but I do miss a lot by being 25 miles away.
I live in Sumas. I’m hoping to move to the ‘Ham, but it might be a while, if it happens at all. I love the energy there and would love to participate in so much, but unfortunately, the last bus back to Sumas leaves at six o’clock…just when things start happenin’. I gave away my van and don’t drive; the bus and my bike usually suffice, but I do miss a lot by being 25 miles away.
How is it that smokers don’t ‘get’ how their smoke can be noticed by non-smokers for a long time after they have smoked?
If I enter a room used for smoking days ago, I can detect it. If it is less tha an hour ago, I get short of breath (Asthma).
Any cloth left in the prescence of a smoker will absorb the smell and need washing. Some family members who smoke don’t realise that going outside to smoke only gets rid of the initial smoke – when they come back in they bring the smell with them!
This lingering smell is the next thing that workplaces need to address maybe?
I always find it odd, hearing folks use libertarian arguments to defend the rights of smokers to smoke in public. Nicotine patches, maybe chewing tobacco – I’d agree that there is an individual right there.
Filling the air with smoke is another story. Second-hand smoke is harmful to bystanders, in both the long term, and also in the short term, for those with respiratory diseases. No one has the right to injure others capriciously.
If I were to go into a laboratory and mix together a bunch of carcinogens, irritants, and addictive drugs, put the mix into a spray bottle, and then walk around spraying the mix into the air in public places, no one would defend my “rights.” More likley, I would be called a terrorist.
Losertarians are people of strong, simple and consistent principles. They will often remind you that they support you doing anything you like so long as you do not initiate force against others.
With one exception – if that force involves making somebody else inhale cigarette smoke it’s fine. So, mostly-consistent …
I agree completely. Of course, that’s exactly what car drivers do. Poison innocent bystanders with their cancer-causing pollution. Dr. David McKeown, Toronto’s Medical Officer of Health, reports that in Toronto, car drivers kill 440 people every year and injure 1,700 so seriously that they have to be hospitalised. The mortality costs alone are $2.2 billion.
Needless to say, these poisoners are not paying the costs of their violent, dangerous behaviour. See:
Kevin, I’m not totally convinced that cars are exactly the same thing. Transportation of people and of stuff has a purpose, and has a cost. And since we all depend on the transportation network at least to some extent, we are all contributing to the problem, and we are all deriving benefits.
I do agree, though, that we have an obligation to minimize harm to others, and that we should reduce our use of motor vehicles in general (and single-occupant cars in particular) as much as practical.
Allium,
Smoking also has a purpose. People enjoy it.
If you think that it is OK to engage in dangerous behaviour that kills and injures other people, then I have to ask you “where do you draw the line?” Is it OK to engage in behaviour that has a 10% chance of killing or injuring someone else? 20%? 40%?
If that’s the yardstick you’re using, then you’d better start living without the benefit of any manufactured goods. People are injured or killed in industrial accidents all the time. In particular, don’t buy anything made of paper; at least two people died in the paper mill where I used to work. Better not accept any medical treatment either; clinical trials and experimental surgery can be dangerous for the patients who take part. Farm machinery sometimes kills agricultural workers, so you can only eat what you grow for yourself; and don’t use any pesticides or fertilizers, because we all know how dangerous checmical plants are for the workers and for the people who live near them. Don’t even think about those evil trucks and planes that carry all these items from around the world.
Life means dealing with risks. I’m content with managing the risks involved in daily living as best I can, whether those risks arise from pollution or transportation accidents or crime. The situation in Japan has once more demonstrated the risks associated with nuclear power, but I’d still be happy to see a nuclear power plant built in the area where I live. In fact, it’s been one of the great disappointments of my adult life that there aren’t thousands more nuclear plants all across the US, as was promised to us in my childhood. I still have fond high school memories of touring the Surry nuclear plant in Virginia during construction and start-up, and thought it was really cool to live so near a nuclear facility.
In Fukushima, Japan, there is a group of workers who have kept going in to work to help reduce the effects of the natural disasters. ‘The Fukushima 50′ are those on duty at any one time and there is a number of shifts involved to keep the work going, meaning 100+ people are dying to save others as we write here. They have my admiration and sympathy for their family and friends. May they reap a just reward for their sacrifice…
I have developed an enormous respect and admiration for the Japanese people as a result of the way they have been behaving in the weeks since the disaster began. Courage, restraint, resourcefulness and self-sacrifice have been practiced in abundance, and I think we all could learn a lot from them.
The people of New Zealand are also amazing. My boyfriend is originally from Christchurch; the home town he knew doesn’t really exist any longer. The people there have opened their hearts and homes in a way I’ve never seen. And the Japanese…I spent several years not far from the quake…I know what the devastation must be like. What a world shift for those affected. Blessings, blessings, blessings.
People enjoy driving fast and that is regulated because it kills so many people.
Smoking kills far more people yet regulation is minimal by comparison – We have speed cameras but few if any smoking cameras! Insurance companies are starting to penalise smokers with higher fees and hospitals with lack of some treatments because smoking is ‘attempted suicide’ and poisons organs against transplants. For example: A recent case in the UK had two transplant receivers that were killed/are being killed by the liver of a donor who had cancer but didn’t know it! The Hospital is being sued for not testing the liver for cancer; yet had they done so, the recipients may have died when waiting. There is no winners with smoking, only losers IMHO
I’ve always believed it my own responsibility to let smokers know if their smoke is bothering me; I don’t need some law or rule to do it for me, which is why I oppose anti-smoking regulations. And I say that as someone with asthma who finds second-hand smoke extremely unpleasant.
That reminds of a time in a bar years ago where a lady member of our group was smoking (totally legally, at a bar, with ashtrays, etc.) and a guy next to her didn’t like the smell, so he told her so. She, of course, ignored him; because it was a bar, there were ashtrays everywhere, it was the early 90′s and sharing the public space with smokers was de regular. This pissed the guy off so he punched her boyfriend, which turned into a melee involving about 10 people (The guy wasn’t even drunk, just an ass). I guess what I’m saying is I really don’t understand what voicing your opinion or expressing your displeasure is supposed to accomplish. If I were in an establishment engaging in behavior that was encouraged, and and that establishment provided tools to facilitate said behavior, and a stranger asked me to stop, the correct answer is that that annoyed person is in the wrong place.
Another time I was at a Sleater-Kinney show at a club in D.C., probably close to 10 years ago, and that Portlandia whatsherface lady told us her drummer was pregnant and asked the audience to stop. Everyone, myself included, just thought that was the dumbest thing we had ever heard, a band on a national tour of smokey bars (that allowed smoking and sold cigarettes!), all pregnant and stuff, demanding that 4000 or so concert goers take it upon themselves to refrain from doing what was encouraged by the establishment. If you don’t want to be exposed to smoke because you are pregnant, don’t go on national tours of smokey bars that encourage smoking and sell cigarettes! Between songs she telling us how much of a bunch of assh*les we were. Guess what Portlandia lady, we weren’t the assh*les.
Highly questionable. I admit that going to some bar where people regularly smoke and asking them to stop is nonsense – at least from some point of view. However, I would also without hesitation claim that ANY person who, when asked for a “favour” of such kind and for such reason, plus in a way presented with a choice – what part of the evening is more important for them to enjoy (smoking/listening to music), finds it that much difficult to refrain from ONE pleasure (smoking) for ONE night, or even for and hour or two (during the gig)… should at least think about their preferences and values. (Just a thought that would need better explaining, perhaps, but this is probably not the place).
And just a side note – I once witnessed similar situation – a concert where the singer was pregnant. She stated the situation, or her choice – she could choose to stop performing for some time, at the cost for us – fans – no concerts to enjoy. Then she asked if people could not smoke for the time of the performance (and yes, there were ashtrays and everything in the club as well). Most of the people just didn’t smoke, some at least went from the front of the audience to the back of the club (where they could hear the music just as well). Of course, there was a huge crowd of people smoking in the lobby during the break, and many people lit up again inside right after the end of the gig when the band left the stage. But for the time of the performance, not only the air in the club was a little better, but the “atmosphere” (in its non-literal meaning) was really nice as well – something like “respect” was in the air. Very nice experience – although it worked only for “the star” and not for other guests in general, but thats a different subject. Something like “we appreciate what you are giving us as an artist, so we also respect your needs as a human being, as a woman, as a mother” … Maybe I’m just silly, but I like such attitude much better than “here we are now, entertain us! and accept whatever conditions there are or GTFO” .
I dare to repeat – I won’t argue about anybody’s choice to smoke, and I would usually choose for myself to leave rather than to argue, if the smoke bothers me. But I still have the “cheekiness” to say that anybody who can’t/don’t want for any reason to refrain from their “passion” for even an hour or two has a problem of sorts and should perhaps consider it.
When asked politely to stop smoking, or to stop doing something else that is making other people uncomfortable, the polite thing to do is to comply graciously. If the request is denied, then the poilte thing for me to do is to tolerate it or leave. The absence of good manners in public places makes me much more uncomfortable than the presence of smoke.
Of course we know that tobacco smoke is harmful to smokers, but in order to get around the former American tolerance for allowing people to engage in behavior harmful only to themselves, the danger of second-hand smoke has been ridiculously overstated for purely political reasons.The most in-depth long term study to date conducted by the World Health Organization studied non-smokers that live with smokers and found no increased risk over other non-smokers that *weren’t* exposed to daily second hand smoke.Think about it for a minute – when we were kids, every adult I knew smoked like a factory, parents, neighbors, teachers, scoutmaster…cooped up in the house and the car even in winter, in every restaurant and coffee shop, on the bus, in airplanes – if second hand smoke were even 1/10th as dangerous as some would have you believe, all of us from the generation that were exposed to heavy shs 24/7 for the first 18 years of our lives should all be dead by now – instead, we’re the longest-lived generation to date.Does what we’ve been hearing pass the litmus-test of what we see with our own eyes?
I know just what you mean. During my childhood, teens and twenties practically every public place had a cloud of cigarette smoke hanging in it. Church and the public library were about the only places I went where there was no smoking indoors. My dad was a heavy smoker, and I remember many family vacations where I spent 10 or 12 hours in the car and could only get fresh air by rolling down a window and sticking my head out of the car. Even at school there were two places that always smelled like smoke: the boys’ bathroom and the teachers’ lounge.
From my own experience – second-hand smoke may not give me cancer but it stops me from riding!
It triggers my Asthma, which makes me too short of breath to ride. THAT is a physical insult as much as if the smoker had put their hands around my throat and throttled me. Ask any rider what would be their reaction to someone physically stopping them from enjoying their bike….
@Scott – I just had a thought about what I said earlier in lighht of your comment regarding the Boomer’s reluctance to die after having so much smoke around in the 19501970 times. As I said about a predisposition, maybe those who had that gene have died and those left over are the ‘tough’ ones?
Sister Sprocket smokes for the following reasons, She is hipster trash, she has tons of up built up aggression with no “release” because of her religious commune, and because Rick draws her that way…However she is one of the hottest cartoon characters I’ve ever seen.
Tried smoking; it interfered with working on bikes so I never took up the habit. It’s beyond bad odor – it has a vapor that clings to anything nearby. When we happen to be around smokers, upon returning home we change clothes taking the smelly ones outside to air for a few days before going in the wash.
What are you smoking today, Sister?
Looks like ‘mallet brand’. Polo appropriate. Nice.
Any hot blonde who can push 2:1 on a small court I’d leg-hump.
@Kn0b: TMI
34×17 I assume…. you know… for skid patches.
erm that’s still one skid patch. or two if you skid with either leg forward
ha what am i talking about? it’s just one skid patch anyway, even you you’re ambiskidextrous
erm that’s still one skid patch. or two if you skid with either leg forward
ha what am i talking about? it’s just one skid patch anyway, even you you’re ambiskidextrous
Anyone who smokes, by definition, is not “hot”.
Disgusting.
Actually, if I saw a person with smoke rolling off them, I would assume they were on fi- Yeah, I can’t even make that joke here…
Anyone who smokes, by definition, is not “hot”.
Disgusting.
Actually, if I saw a person with smoke rolling off them, I would assume they were on fi- Yeah, I can’t even make that joke here…
I thought smoking in public was banned in USA.
than you are as hiiigh as a kite, good sir.
@igamogam: Not yet, but the power hungry control freaks are trying.
@ jon4t2 – Don’t knock it. Every smoker I know (in France, UK, Ireland, Switzerland and Germany) say that smoking bans are a great idea now they have got used to the practicalities.
Every non-smoker I know is ecstatic!
@ jon4t2 – Don’t knock it. Every smoker I know (in France, UK, Ireland, Switzerland and Germany) say that smoking bans are a great idea now they have got used to the practicalities.
Every non-smoker I know is ecstatic!
Indoor, in most states. Where states don’t do it, they are doing it city by city or county by county.
I sure wouldn’t let her indoors with that crap…
Her clothes would smell like an ashtray, her teeth would have brown/black stains etc – In short, she would only appeal to smokers IMHO
Leaving-out the images of course – no smell to those. That’s why film stars get away with it! Many of them were described as ‘smelly’ after someone met them in the flesh… Pity that tobacco companies sponser them to ‘push’ their images when smoking
Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray.
fun was banned too in the states .. by nixon as i remember
fun was banned too in the states .. by nixon as i remember
Oh-oh … all of you anti-smoking Nazis are starting to sound like haters. Let he who is without sin throw the first ashtray. I don’t smoke, wife does, somehow we manage to maintain domestic bliss. Go figure.
I am glad for you Dale – I hope you don’t mind when your wife starts the decline? (Sorry)
Many of my most loved family members died of smoking-related deseases long before their time so I have a reduced tolerance to smokers who insist on polluting my air and making me into a ‘passive smoker’
Those who pollute their children’s air are unforgiveable to me….
Also – after a brief experience of smoking circa 1963, I have never smoked for health and social reasons.
I hope this answers your first comment!
Smoke-free since August 21, 2006. Can’t stand the smell now. I try not to be that “indignant ex-smoker”, but if I’m around someone who smells of cigarettes, I’ll put enough distance between us. Uck.
Agree about smoking around kids, but as to the rest … Well, good for you; you should be proud.
@ Dale in Indy
My girl friend does smoke too. It’s OK now… She smokes in the kitchen.
It was more difficult for me when I quit smoking 5 years ago, after, phew, 18 years of self-intoxication.
@JX75 – (Lightly) The GF smokes in the kitchen? So the carcinogens are left stuck to the cutlery/plates etc and the food as well!
I am not proud about a lifetime of fear and loathing (myself) Just saying that I may have followed my parents and other family members and become another smoking statistic, if I hadn’t seen the blue-green lung of a 24 year old woman, that cancer killed, in my teen years. THAT made me give up smoking!
My Sister-in-Law is a Nurse and is in charge at our Childrens hospital. She smokes and goes outside to do so. (Yes, she stinks of smoke when she comes back in too) Some people have the Genetic predisposition to get cancer and smoking can trigger it. Others resist cancer for 80+ years with no health problems. There is a spectrum and we all fall somewhere on the scale. Who wants to test where they fit in?
@JX75 – (Lightly) The GF smokes in the kitchen? So the carcinogens are left stuck to the cutlery/plates etc and the food as well!
I am not proud about a lifetime of fear and loathing (myself) Just saying that I may have followed my parents and other family members and become another smoking statistic, if I hadn’t seen the blue-green lung of a 24 year old woman, that cancer killed, in my teen years. THAT made me give up smoking!
My Sister-in-Law is a Nurse and is in charge at our Childrens hospital. She smokes and goes outside to do so. (Yes, she stinks of smoke when she comes back in too) Some people have the Genetic predisposition to get cancer and smoking can trigger it. Others resist cancer for 80+ years with no health problems. There is a spectrum and we all fall somewhere on the scale. Who wants to test where they fit in?
Dale-It stinks. It makes me sick. That makes me a Nazi? Fine, whatever. Ein reich! Ein volk! Ein fuhrer!
@mongo: The so-called Nazi trouble starts when you give politicians and bureaucrats the power to punish people for using a legal product that is taxed by those same politicians and bureaucrats. If it’s so vile and such a health risk, then ban its sale. Puure and simple. It’s pure B.S. to allow the sale of tobacco while simultaneously banning its use in public. It’s an admission by the politicos that it can’t be stopped, so they might as well get a piece of the action.
Nicely said. My point above, however, had more to do with the fact that a lot of folks just seem to enjoy stirring the pot for the sake of making sanctimonious pronouncements, as opposed to seeing this for what it is, a fun site to talk about a cartoon, and share a common love of cycling. I was trying to do this in a semi-humorous manner; my apologies to any I’ve offended, but ya’all need to lighten up.
Still say “I’d paint three of those murals for some of that a55″
The problem with prohibition was amply proven a hundred years or so ago. We can’t go there. Even if we stop it being imported, it will be brought in illegally just like cannabis etc. Education is the only answer and stopping tobacco being glamorised in schools as ‘cool’ may help – not with a heavy hand, I hasten to add, but by education! Not allowing TV/Films any possibility of showing smoking might help too, as people adolise their stars and emulate their screen persona.
Dale-It stinks. It makes me sick. That makes me a Nazi? Fine, whatever. Ein reich! Ein volk! Ein fuhrer!
@mongo: The so-called Nazi trouble starts when you give politicians and bureaucrats the power to punish people for using a legal product that is taxed by those same politicians and bureaucrats. If it’s so vile and such a health risk, then ban its sale. Puure and simple. It’s pure B.S. to allow the sale of tobacco while simultaneously banning its use in public. It’s an admission by the politicos that it can’t be stopped, so they might as well get a piece of the action.
Nicely said. My point above, however, had more to do with the fact that a lot of folks just seem to enjoy stirring the pot for the sake of making sanctimonious pronouncements, as opposed to seeing this for what it is, a fun site to talk about a cartoon, and share a common love of cycling. I was trying to do this in a semi-humorous manner; my apologies to any I’ve offended, but ya’all need to lighten up.
Still say “I’d paint three of those murals for some of that a55″
The problem with prohibition was amply proven a hundred years or so ago. We can’t go there. Even if we stop it being imported, it will be brought in illegally just like cannabis etc. Education is the only answer and stopping tobacco being glamorised in schools as ‘cool’ may help – not with a heavy hand, I hasten to add, but by education! Not allowing TV/Films any possibility of showing smoking might help too, as people adolise their stars and emulate their screen persona.
@ Dale in Indy–Godwin’s law!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10618638
@ Dale in Indy–Godwin’s law!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10618638
@ Dale in Indy–Godwin’s law!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10618638
@ Dale in Indy–Godwin’s law!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10618638
I’m in love…
She gets better everytime she appears in pencil/pen.
Hooray she’s back!!!
<3
Play before work… with attitude!
Yehuda better watch out…
Yehuda not cry
Sister Sprocket is coming to town ?
I looked it up. My Pashley’s SA 5-speed IHG has gear ratios of:
0.625
0.750
1.000
1.333
1.600
So Sr. Sprocket’s polo bike is a bit lower geared than my bike’s first gear.
Yes, that will take a while to get around upon that bike.
However, it is probably a great bike for bike polo!
Those are the gear ratios provided by the hub. You also have a chainring and cog to contend with. So, for example, if your ever beloved tank ^G Pashley has a 42 tooth chainring and a 16 tooth cog you’ve got ratios of 1.64, 1.97, 2.63, 3.50 and 4.22 (done with old eyes and a slide rule, maybe not good to 3 sigfig)
Ummm… what’s that in wheel inches??
2 x wheel dia. So maybe 50-54″.
… Sister Sprocket’s gear inches, that is. I’m not sure what units tanks use.
So ‘Pi’ = 2 these days? (and just because you have 2 wheels doesn’t mean you add them together
‘Wheel Inches’ is the effective Dia of the wheel as if it was a ‘penny-farthing’, where one turn of the cranks=one of the wheel. Dia of that wheel is the ‘gear inches’ for most purposes. (Ratio of crank to sprocket) x current wheel Dia is the formula for that one. See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_g.html
Pi doesn’t enter into it when you already know the wheel diameter = x (I assumed x = 2527″ given sprocket has a pretty standard looking bike) and the chainring to cog ratio = 2 in Sprocket’s case.
If you’re calculating from the wheel circumference as in the roll-out method, then you need to divide by pi to get the diameter.
Circular arguement?
RG I was just joking about ‘Pi=2′ etc. Your comment about SS case with 2:1 gearing is accurate, as 1 crank rev = 2 wheel revs in that case. (Yes, I had forgotten about SS’ gearing when I made my post yesterday, Sorry)
trailer pi = 3
The most inaccurate version of pi would have been plain 4 or 3.2 from the Indiana General Assembly of 1897.
What sort of slide rule? My favorites are my K+E 4081-3 (Log Log Duplex Decitrig) and my Post 1460 (Versalog).
Before you can legitimately call my Pashley Sovereign Roadster a “tank,” you have to take the Kevin Love challenge.
Suppose that you are me, riding your bike to work, get groceries, etc. You live in Toronto, which definitely has weather.
Here is a list of the factory-standard features that the bike comes with. If you think my bike is too heavy, here’s the challenge: which items would you get rid of?
Full fenders
Chaincase
Coatguard
Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres
Front and rear lights, front light dynamo powered
Brooks B33 saddle
Double top tube
Integral rear wheel lock
Tyre pump with integral pump holder
Centre kickstand
“Girlfriend” style Rear rack with spring-loaded rat-trap style cargo holder
Two-tone bell
Rear fender reflector
Sturmey-Archer 5-speed Internal Hub Gears
Fully-enclosed internal hub brakes
I’ll give you a freebe: I already got rid of the tyre pump, since the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres have never, ever got a puncture.
That pump is feeble, but I can’t get rid of mine because of looks though. I used to have a centre kickstand (Pletscher two-legger) but it failed on me, so now I am back to the stock fold-down. Which brings me to my point: that rack looks like it’s massively durable, but look at the thin bendable sheet metal connecting to the fork ends. Will it really support a 120 lb “girlfriend-mk1″?
Oh, and it’s silly to list Pashley components and ask people to get rid of stuff. All Dutch- and English-style Roadster bikes weigh about that much–50-60 lbs, depending on brand. Given infinite money and custom order, you could have the same exact bike weigh 40-42 lbs and be as strong. But for $1400 USD, the Pashley is hard to beat.
My only real complaint: why did they have to put in a 2.4W front dynamo? That really limits things for the end-user. Why not put in a 3.0W with a 3.0W halogen bulb?
I’d lose the double top tube. I MIGHT replace the integral rear wheel lock with a cable and padlock or a U lock, which is hardly a weight savings. Going to a one tone bell from a two-tone bell is a a paltry weight savings for the expense of a new bell. But then I’m a little weird — I live in an area where beach cruisers are actually ridden on the beach….
He has no choice on the double-top tube. Pashley’s largest frame comes with it, but the medium and small do not.
Robert,
I actually do use a U-lock in addition to the integral rear lock for situations where I’m not in sight of the bike. In other words, If I’m at a shop where I can keep an eye on the bike through the front window, I’ll only use the rear wheel lock.
For situations where I’m leaving it outside for long periods at night I’ll also bring along a great big thick chain and enormous padlock – the chain will barely fit through the spokes of the wheels. I don’t even want to think about what it weighs, but I’ve still got my bike. Fortunately, that’s rare. I normally ride along with just the U-lock.
The double top tube provides great strength. I’m over two M tall and weigh over 110 kg. Add on another 40 kg of groceries and I need a strong bike. I wouldn’t get rid of the top tube.
With that size chain (barely fits through spokes!?), you also gain the advantage of not having to find anything to lock your bike to. That plus bike weight is animmovable object.
That’s pretty much standard equipment for any real bike … or at least it is for any bike here in the Netherlands
However the build of the bike itself (double top tube?) and its weight would definitely qualify it as a ‘tank’ (I’m guessing it weighs +/- 1520 Kg ?)
Tanks are still usable in environments where all other vehicles would have fallen apart just by being in the area …
You realize that they do make fenders and racks for modern lightweight bikes too, right? Even a lightweight full plastic chainguard is not that big of a deal to retrofit on pretty much any bike that weighs half as much as one of those conduit tanks.
i’d replace the hub gears, tyres, wheels and the frame, of course the saddle and the handlebar, most probably the pedals and who needs a chainguard ?
Ok, here goes. I’m me, I ride to work, the grocery, everything. I don’t live in Toronto, but Portland where we have “weather” too. Admittedly there is limited snow, which would be the only substantively different thing. On to your list:
Full fenders Got ‘em but in plastic
Chaincase Nope, and I’ve yet to get a pants cuff caught, in part because I sometimes use a lightweight Velcro strap. less than 0.2 oz
Coatguard nope, again, never had any trouble
Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres Conti Gator skins.
Front and rear lights, front light dynamo powered Yep, battery operated bar (nightrider 700*) and helmet mounted (planet bike). Never had problems with batteries. I also run two rear lights. *My understanding is that your pashley light is a Busch and Muller lumotec and puts out …60 lumens? 65? AND doesn’t offer a flashing option?
Brooks B33 saddle B17
Double top tube one’s enough for me.
Integral rear wheel lock kryptonite on handy frame holder.
Tyre pump with integral pump holder CO2 cartridge, spare tubes, etc in seat bag
Centre kickstand none, just use your pedal on a convenient curb
“Girlfriend” style Rear rack with spring-loaded rat-trap style cargo holder Rear rack, with rat trap style and bungee cords. Girlfriend can haul herself.
Two-tone bell one tone is ok, I’m not sending Morse coded messages. . . which I could do with one tone, if I knew Morse code.
Rear fender reflector one on rack
Sturmey-Archer 5-speed Internal Hub Gears Typical derailleur set up. Occasional lubrication and cleaning every few months, takes 5 minutes on average. Indexed, no trouble to date, 14 gears but I use fewer regularly
Fully-enclosed internal hub brakes rim brakes, kool stop pads, occasionally I’ll clean the rims.
The Bottom Line: total weight of 27 lbs or 20 lbs under Pashley list weight, essentially the same functionality and it was probably a ton cheaper regardless of how you figure the cost (absolute, per mile, or cost per ride).
Result: Get rid of the Pashley (tank), save a lot of weight
Here’s my list, not of things that come with the bike but what I have to buy separately with each new bike:
fenders
lights
rack
comfortable saddle
bell
kickstand (for some bikes)
pedals (for other bikes)
shoes (depending on the pedals)
good lock
water bottle cage
component locking system
It gets rather expensive.
@ ‘reqired’: Hey, anotherone, who still uses slide rules
I wouldn’t miss mine when I was in Abitur some 30 y ago (elecrical calcuzlators were allowed) and I still use it. It’s best ever for relations. Being short-sighted AND starting to become old-sighted I’m still able to read 4 numbers up to 5.x on a 30 cm scale (above 6.0 there are only 3 numbers left to be readable).
You have to spin it to win it!
Nothing like 2:1 on the MTB though.
I’m pretty naive when it comes to the mechanics of bikes. I keep my Diamondback Wildwood Citi in a very high gear, rarely switching to low gear. I walk up hills; I’ve never had the strength or stamina to ride them, even in first gear. The good [sic] sister is a dynamo. I am not.
My bicycle: http://www.flickr.com/photos/teewacket/3199571999/
Similar to what my mother rides.
I borrow that bike sometimes for close-range town errands quite often… soooo comfortable! 
) (and while I’m riding it, I “listen” and feel in what condition the bike is – so I can fix problems later, should there be any, as I’m the “family mechanic”. Mom almost never notices/reports maintenance issues, until something falls off… better to check the bike myself from time to time, and what better way to check a bike than riding it? some “dry” check in a garage never works that well… but I’m already digressing 
)
I can carry more on my bicycle than some people can carry in the trunks of their cars. I’m a wizard with bungee cords and distributing load weights evenly…lol.
Great pic of the Eagle, Tee!
Also – I love the ‘Pyecycle’ plate on the basket…
As for ‘Road under water’ – Classic!
I rode through that flood water…it was brrrry cold, still wintertime. Put on my water sandals, rolled up my jeans, and away I went. I have a video of the ride on Youtube if you’re interested.
Yes
Riding my bike in a flood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC9i1nI6knQ
One of “my” eagles, not far from me. They know me, as I used to ride out to their tree nearly every day. I need to get out there soon…bet there are eaglets in the nest. I love living here…the bald eagles are proliferous.
My Kiwi drove me to the eagle tree. I saw the head of an eaglet. Made my day.
She won’t spin to win in a few years if she keeps smoken’. Ask my MIL and grandfather.
She doesn’t inhale.
I understand that cigar and pipe smokers don’t inhale. Can anyone here confirm this?
They don’t inhale, so instead of lung cancer, they get lip and throat cancers…. What I find interesting is that she would light up in the shop, I thought the shop was in Cleveland and Ohio has a workplace smoking ban, which would make it illegal. There’s a way for YM. to get back at SS, rat her out on the smoking law….
Yes, cancers of the mouth are an increased risk for pipe and cigar smokers. Freud had his upper palate removed after years of smoking cigars, and needed a prosthetic. Sometimes a cigar is just a… carcinogen-delivery device.
@Wogster: Become a tool of the State and rat out sister for smoking? I don’t think Yehuda would cross that line.
Not a ‘tool of the State’ just a concerned citizen who would like to keep customers and SS alive for an extra 30-or-so years!
@Tencon: Just like all those nice people who gave us the 18th Amendment to the Constitution and Prohibition. That worked out real well… not.
Can we agree to disagree like the Great Helmet debate please. Thanks…
Sigh … uh … it’s a cartoon.
@Dale in Indy: New here? The cartoon is just the starting point.
no play no polo.
Polo? Sister plays a game where she carries a weapon? This is scary!
@Johnboy: Are you kidding? Sister IS a weapon!
tobacky gives you those daddy warbucks eyes though…
The wingless harpy returns…
My singlespeed commuter has a 2:1 gear ratio (at one time, it was 1.6:1). I can average 1617 mph from door to door when I’m motivated (i.e., running late). I’ve coasted past more than one hipster on their high geared fixies on the long flat straightaways, so it doesn’t seem to be holding me back. The low gearing also allows me to cruise along at 6-8 mph comfortably, climb hills in the saddle with a load & a headwind, and to accelerate through intersections quickly.I’m not willing to sacrifice the wide performance envelope in order to increase my top speed, since most of my riding is not done at top speed.
Of course, 2:1 is a tall gear for bicycle polo.
I’ve ridden with sedate group rides using my mom’s Schwinn Suburban step through “middleweight” with Shimano Positron shifting. Kept the fenders on, added a front basket. On one fifty mile (approx.) ride, the roadies appreciated that while I wasn’t the first one up the big grade, I wasn’t the last either. Then when we took the Coyote Creek path back to the start, I took the lead into the headwind…. It’s a great city riding sort of bike, and the performance is ludicrously nice on well-maintained unpaved roads.
Schwinn Suburban! Nice bike. I like the electro-forged Schwinns made in their Chicago factory. I’ve still got the Schwinn that |I bought at the age of 16, and it still works just fine. There’s a Schwinn catalogue photo of the Suburban here:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cyclelicio.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/schwinn-suburban-girls1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/vintage-schwinn-catalogs/&usg=___vR7QCngO6UZ4n264PXQqnPrPaI=&h=642&w=588&sz=154&hl=en&start=43&zoom=1&tbnid=EjIBCYSXGxeNuM:&tbnh=151&tbnw=152&ei=jKuQTaXwE4mEvAO15omjDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dschwinn%2Bsuburban%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1T4SNNT_en___CA345%26biw%3D1579%26bih%3D625%26tbs%3Disch:11%2C991&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=596&vpy=117&dur=106&hovh=235&hovw=215&tx=149&ty=86&oei=TKqQTbuoG8HdgQfPgcm7DQ&page=3&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:43&biw=1579&bih=625
Sorry for the insanely long URL. Here’s a better one.
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/vintage-schwinn-catalogs/
“Lightweight bike for girls”…lolololololol. Wish mine were! It’s the one detail that keeps me from putting it on the bus to spend the day in Bellingham doing Bellingham-type activities more often; it’s so blooming heavy. It’s all I can do to get it up onto the bus rack, and by the end of the day, my forearms are badly bruised by using them to lift the bike. Taking away the accessories isn’t an option…I need everything that’s on it. Love the bikes on that site…thanks for sharing.
I used to attend Roosevelt Elementary back in the original building on Alabama, what part of town do you live in?
I live in Sumas. I’m hoping to move to the ‘Ham, but it might be a while, if it happens at all. I love the energy there and would love to participate in so much, but unfortunately, the last bus back to Sumas leaves at six o’clock…just when things start happenin’. I gave away my van and don’t drive; the bus and my bike usually suffice, but I do miss a lot by being 25 miles away.
I used to attend Roosevelt Elementary back in the original building on Alabama, what part of town do you live in?
I live in Sumas. I’m hoping to move to the ‘Ham, but it might be a while, if it happens at all. I love the energy there and would love to participate in so much, but unfortunately, the last bus back to Sumas leaves at six o’clock…just when things start happenin’. I gave away my van and don’t drive; the bus and my bike usually suffice, but I do miss a lot by being 25 miles away.
At first glance, the first girl there looks a bit like SS?
I concur.
I concur.
i can actually smell the stench from that pipe
How is it that smokers don’t ‘get’ how their smoke can be noticed by non-smokers for a long time after they have smoked?
If I enter a room used for smoking days ago, I can detect it. If it is less tha an hour ago, I get short of breath (Asthma).
Any cloth left in the prescence of a smoker will absorb the smell and need washing. Some family members who smoke don’t realise that going outside to smoke only gets rid of the initial smoke – when they come back in they bring the smell with them!
This lingering smell is the next thing that workplaces need to address maybe?
I always find it odd, hearing folks use libertarian arguments to defend the rights of smokers to smoke in public. Nicotine patches, maybe chewing tobacco – I’d agree that there is an individual right there.
Filling the air with smoke is another story. Second-hand smoke is harmful to bystanders, in both the long term, and also in the short term, for those with respiratory diseases. No one has the right to injure others capriciously.
If I were to go into a laboratory and mix together a bunch of carcinogens, irritants, and addictive drugs, put the mix into a spray bottle, and then walk around spraying the mix into the air in public places, no one would defend my “rights.” More likley, I would be called a terrorist.
Losertarians are people of strong, simple and consistent principles. They will often remind you that they support you doing anything you like so long as you do not initiate force against others.
With one exception – if that force involves making somebody else inhale cigarette smoke it’s fine. So, mostly-consistent …
Allium,
I agree completely. Of course, that’s exactly what car drivers do. Poison innocent bystanders with their cancer-causing pollution. Dr. David McKeown, Toronto’s Medical Officer of Health, reports that in Toronto, car drivers kill 440 people every year and injure 1,700 so seriously that they have to be hospitalised. The mortality costs alone are $2.2 billion.
Needless to say, these poisoners are not paying the costs of their violent, dangerous behaviour. See:
http://www.toronto.ca/health/hphe/pdf/air_pollution_burden.pdf
Kevin, I’m not totally convinced that cars are exactly the same thing. Transportation of people and of stuff has a purpose, and has a cost. And since we all depend on the transportation network at least to some extent, we are all contributing to the problem, and we are all deriving benefits.
I do agree, though, that we have an obligation to minimize harm to others, and that we should reduce our use of motor vehicles in general (and single-occupant cars in particular) as much as practical.
Allium,
Smoking also has a purpose. People enjoy it.
If you think that it is OK to engage in dangerous behaviour that kills and injures other people, then I have to ask you “where do you draw the line?” Is it OK to engage in behaviour that has a 10% chance of killing or injuring someone else? 20%? 40%?
How far are you prepared to go?
If that’s the yardstick you’re using, then you’d better start living without the benefit of any manufactured goods. People are injured or killed in industrial accidents all the time. In particular, don’t buy anything made of paper; at least two people died in the paper mill where I used to work. Better not accept any medical treatment either; clinical trials and experimental surgery can be dangerous for the patients who take part. Farm machinery sometimes kills agricultural workers, so you can only eat what you grow for yourself; and don’t use any pesticides or fertilizers, because we all know how dangerous checmical plants are for the workers and for the people who live near them. Don’t even think about those evil trucks and planes that carry all these items from around the world.
Life means dealing with risks. I’m content with managing the risks involved in daily living as best I can, whether those risks arise from pollution or transportation accidents or crime. The situation in Japan has once more demonstrated the risks associated with nuclear power, but I’d still be happy to see a nuclear power plant built in the area where I live. In fact, it’s been one of the great disappointments of my adult life that there aren’t thousands more nuclear plants all across the US, as was promised to us in my childhood. I still have fond high school memories of touring the Surry nuclear plant in Virginia during construction and start-up, and thought it was really cool to live so near a nuclear facility.
In Fukushima, Japan, there is a group of workers who have kept going in to work to help reduce the effects of the natural disasters. ‘The Fukushima 50′ are those on duty at any one time and there is a number of shifts involved to keep the work going, meaning 100+ people are dying to save others as we write here. They have my admiration and sympathy for their family and friends. May they reap a just reward for their sacrifice…
I have developed an enormous respect and admiration for the Japanese people as a result of the way they have been behaving in the weeks since the disaster began. Courage, restraint, resourcefulness and self-sacrifice have been practiced in abundance, and I think we all could learn a lot from them.
The people of New Zealand are also amazing. My boyfriend is originally from Christchurch; the home town he knew doesn’t really exist any longer. The people there have opened their hearts and homes in a way I’ve never seen. And the Japanese…I spent several years not far from the quake…I know what the devastation must be like. What a world shift for those affected. Blessings, blessings, blessings.
People enjoy driving fast and that is regulated because it kills so many people.
Smoking kills far more people yet regulation is minimal by comparison – We have speed cameras but few if any smoking cameras! Insurance companies are starting to penalise smokers with higher fees and hospitals with lack of some treatments because smoking is ‘attempted suicide’ and poisons organs against transplants. For example: A recent case in the UK had two transplant receivers that were killed/are being killed by the liver of a donor who had cancer but didn’t know it! The Hospital is being sued for not testing the liver for cancer; yet had they done so, the recipients may have died when waiting. There is no winners with smoking, only losers IMHO
I’ve always believed it my own responsibility to let smokers know if their smoke is bothering me; I don’t need some law or rule to do it for me, which is why I oppose anti-smoking regulations. And I say that as someone with asthma who finds second-hand smoke extremely unpleasant.
That reminds of a time in a bar years ago where a lady member of our group was smoking (totally legally, at a bar, with ashtrays, etc.) and a guy next to her didn’t like the smell, so he told her so. She, of course, ignored him; because it was a bar, there were ashtrays everywhere, it was the early 90′s and sharing the public space with smokers was de regular. This pissed the guy off so he punched her boyfriend, which turned into a melee involving about 10 people (The guy wasn’t even drunk, just an ass). I guess what I’m saying is I really don’t understand what voicing your opinion or expressing your displeasure is supposed to accomplish. If I were in an establishment engaging in behavior that was encouraged, and and that establishment provided tools to facilitate said behavior, and a stranger asked me to stop, the correct answer is that that annoyed person is in the wrong place.
Another time I was at a Sleater-Kinney show at a club in D.C., probably close to 10 years ago, and that Portlandia whatsherface lady told us her drummer was pregnant and asked the audience to stop. Everyone, myself included, just thought that was the dumbest thing we had ever heard, a band on a national tour of smokey bars (that allowed smoking and sold cigarettes!), all pregnant and stuff, demanding that 4000 or so concert goers take it upon themselves to refrain from doing what was encouraged by the establishment. If you don’t want to be exposed to smoke because you are pregnant, don’t go on national tours of smokey bars that encourage smoking and sell cigarettes! Between songs she telling us how much of a bunch of assh*les we were. Guess what Portlandia lady, we weren’t the assh*les.
Highly questionable. I admit that going to some bar where people regularly smoke and asking them to stop is nonsense – at least from some point of view. However, I would also without hesitation claim that ANY person who, when asked for a “favour” of such kind and for such reason, plus in a way presented with a choice – what part of the evening is more important for them to enjoy (smoking/listening to music), finds it that much difficult to refrain from ONE pleasure (smoking) for ONE night, or even for and hour or two (during the gig)… should at least think about their preferences and values. (Just a thought that would need better explaining, perhaps, but this is probably not the place).
And just a side note – I once witnessed similar situation – a concert where the singer was pregnant. She stated the situation, or her choice – she could choose to stop performing for some time, at the cost for us – fans – no concerts to enjoy. Then she asked if people could not smoke for the time of the performance (and yes, there were ashtrays and everything in the club as well). Most of the people just didn’t smoke, some at least went from the front of the audience to the back of the club (where they could hear the music just as well). Of course, there was a huge crowd of people smoking in the lobby during the break, and many people lit up again inside right after the end of the gig when the band left the stage. But for the time of the performance, not only the air in the club was a little better, but the “atmosphere” (in its non-literal meaning) was really nice as well – something like “respect” was in the air.
Very nice experience – although it worked only for “the star” and not for other guests in general, but thats a different subject. Something like “we appreciate what you are giving us as an artist, so we also respect your needs as a human being, as a woman, as a mother” … Maybe I’m just silly, but I like such attitude much better than “here we are now, entertain us! and accept whatever conditions there are or GTFO” .
I dare to repeat – I won’t argue about anybody’s choice to smoke, and I would usually choose for myself to leave rather than to argue, if the smoke bothers me. But I still have the “cheekiness” to say that anybody who can’t/don’t want for any reason to refrain from their “passion” for even an hour or two has a problem of sorts and should perhaps consider it.
When asked politely to stop smoking, or to stop doing something else that is making other people uncomfortable, the polite thing to do is to comply graciously. If the request is denied, then the poilte thing for me to do is to tolerate it or leave. The absence of good manners in public places makes me much more uncomfortable than the presence of smoke.
Smoking in public places has been illegal in Scotland for years. The pubs don’t smell of smoke anymore but bottom burps are much more obvious.
That sounds like food has replaced tobacco as the anti-social activity of the moment?
Of course we know that tobacco smoke is harmful to smokers, but in order to get around the former American tolerance for allowing people to engage in behavior harmful only to themselves, the danger of second-hand smoke has been ridiculously overstated for purely political reasons. The most in-depth long term study to date conducted by the World Health Organization studied non-smokers that live with smokers and found no increased risk over other non-smokers that *weren’t* exposed to daily second hand smoke. Think about it for a minute – when we were kids, every adult I knew smoked like a factory, parents, neighbors, teachers, scoutmaster… cooped up in the house and the car even in winter, in every restaurant and coffee shop, on the bus, in airplanes – if second hand smoke were even 1/10th as dangerous as some would have you believe, all of us from the generation that were exposed to heavy shs 24/7 for the first 18 years of our lives should all be dead by now – instead, we’re the longest-lived generation to date. Does what we’ve been hearing pass the litmus-test of what we see with our own eyes?
I know just what you mean. During my childhood, teens and twenties practically every public place had a cloud of cigarette smoke hanging in it. Church and the public library were about the only places I went where there was no smoking indoors. My dad was a heavy smoker, and I remember many family vacations where I spent 10 or 12 hours in the car and could only get fresh air by rolling down a window and sticking my head out of the car. Even at school there were two places that always smelled like smoke: the boys’ bathroom and the teachers’ lounge.
From my own experience – second-hand smoke may not give me cancer but it stops me from riding!
It triggers my Asthma, which makes me too short of breath to ride. THAT is a physical insult as much as if the smoker had put their hands around my throat and throttled me. Ask any rider what would be their reaction to someone physically stopping them from enjoying their bike….
@Scott – I just had a thought about what I said earlier in lighht of your comment regarding the Boomer’s reluctance to die after having so much smoke around in the 19501970 times. As I said about a predisposition, maybe those who had that gene have died and those left over are the ‘tough’ ones?
Sister Sprocket smokes for the following reasons, She is hipster trash, she has tons of up built up aggression with no “release” because of her religious commune, and because Rick draws her that way…However she is one of the hottest cartoon characters I’ve ever seen.
2:1 ratio? with a 40-622 tyre that makes 4,44 gear metres.
resulting in 24 km/h at 90 rpm or 32 km/h at 120.
I regard that as a high gear.
Anyone know if this is in relation to the South Central Bike Polo Championships that happened this weekend? I was there getting my polo on
If you have never played bike polo…you have never really ridden a bike.
Anyone know if this is in relation to the South Central Bike Polo Championships that happened this weekend? I was there getting my polo on
If you have never played bike polo…you have never really ridden a bike.
Tried smoking; it interfered with working on bikes so I never took up the habit. It’s beyond bad odor – it has a vapor that clings to anything nearby. When we happen to be around smokers, upon returning home we change clothes taking the smelly ones outside to air for a few days before going in the wash.
SHE’S BACK…..I ABSOLUTLEY LOVE THIS WOMAN!!!!
8-o
All right.
No can we get back to bicycle helmets, please?
wow.. this babe must really have a strong kegel muscle..
She’s asking Joe if he knows how long it takes to get around on a 2:1 gear ratio?
I’m sure he doesn’t…