It doesn’t need to be either or type of decision it can be an andtype of decision http://www.mellowjohnnys.com/ Mellow Jhonny’s here in downtown Austin has the sales floor and even the service area where you can see the wrench working on your ride but also it has a cafe for a coffee and a bite and downstairs has a bike-locker for commuters and a shower for bike commuters.
Now if only they hada velodrome!
I love the velodrome plan! Just imagine if all bike shops had a safe place to test their bikes before you bought and to receive training off-road before you start vehicular riding! Just like some motor schools?
Ever fallen off the banking on a track? Thankfully me neither but I’ve seen plenty of wood burns, huge splinters, several broken collarbones and wrists and even two guys in a coma (both recovered luckily but they were never rode the same again). Velodromes are not as safe as they look and riding a track bears little relation to riding on the road or off-road-trails…
The great thing about the track is that most people do not try it for fun until they have mastered bike handling skills on the road. You are so much less likely to be crashed by a newbie that in a group ride.
@mike w. Potholes… ever ridden Dorais? AKA Paris-Dorais.
Dorais was built for the ’69 US National track championships in Detroit (Warren to be precise). It was located in a neighborhood that eventually succumbed to urban decay. The Wolverine Sports Club maintained the track the best that they could but between the local vandals and a fickle water table, the track eroded into history. Dorais was home track to America’s best riders including World and Olympic Champions Sue Novara and Sheila Young and Olympic Gold medalist Dave Grylls as well as other National, Olympic, and professional team riders such Roger Young, Tom Schuler, Noel Dejonckere, Danny VanHaute, and even some dude name Jim House.
I think that dodging potholes, glass, frost heaves, and shopping carts made us all better bike handlers.
Never rode Dorais, but Brown Deer near Milwaukee. No potholes there, but it was a sunny day and the large tar patches the parks dept. put in were very slippery. IIRC, alleged banking was about <10 deg. and the gears were restricted to 84 or 86.
Kissena was pretty decayed until recently, i’ve heard.
Ed Rudolph velo’ had no apron back when i started riding there…. if you got pushed into the infield, getting back on the track was a real adventure! That’s changed now.
Kenosha has some pretty interesting bumps and long cracks, but i hear that they’re fixing them for next season… Back in the day if you got pushed over the west banking you could’ve ended up in the parking lot, but they put in a proper fence long since.
I saw Danny VanHaute ride as a young junior… he was beating up the big guys back then, too…
@ mike.w – I see your point but, to paraphrase you … on the track you don’t have brakes and you can’t use them…
Every track I have ridden require that novices do an induction course before they can ride unaccompanied. All-in-all the track is a complex, mentally intense experience with a LONG way to fall if you get it wrong at the top of the banking, the constant need to travel fast enough not to slide off, no real way of stopping quickly apart from gravity and brute force, always having to pedal and be very aware of what’s going on around you including two other directions which you don’t normally have to consider and finally – a little dust or moisture WILL cause a crash.
Not a place for newbies, a big flat car-park is better for the uninitiated.
On my “home” track, they now put newbies through 510 training sessions before letting them race. Even though i had been a cat 3, i had to do my time back in the fives after my 20-year hiatus.
The other nearby track has no such requirements, and neither did hometrack back years ago. The difference in number of crashes is dramatic.
i still say though, track racing is much safer than road -where the falls can be just as long and nasty.
And my point about brakes? No one will be slamming the Italian Anchors in front of you. Generally i find it much more comfortable riding in a track pack than a road bunch precisely because no one can brake suddenly or coast down mid-pack.
Coventry once had a Velodrome. In the grounds of ‘Coventry Technical College’ – ‘The Butts’. I once tried to ride there but as young and ignorent as I was, I didn’t know about the rule that I needed Mongo’s bike to ride there! My 3-speed commuter was completely wrong for the job. The staff were too polite to tell me to get lost, just said ‘No’ after each attempt at stripping my bike a bit more and trying again, without saying what I needed was a fixie, just a frame with minimum attachments to ride it. I have never forgotten my disappointment. It was torn down a few years ago after many decades of braving the weather and little use. Shame, in Coventry of all places! The birthplace of the diamond frame etc.
The velodrome where I ride requires that you have a track frame, fixed gear, and no brakes. Because it’s taken seriously it is very safe and I would argue that those 45 degree walls look a lot more intimdating than they really are. Velodrome’s are a lot of fun and a great change of pace but they are a bit like running on a tredmill; you work and work but never go anywhere. Even though you have to put up with cars on the roads, you are going somewhere, seeing things, enjoying the surroundings.
I start all of the kids I coach on the velodrome. No cars, no dogs, no potholes, no trees, and mom-n-dad can see them the whole time. My youngest one started out as a 7 year old
It is necessary to be careful with bike washes. With some bikes you can force water into places that it was not designed to go.
I infrequently wipe my Pashley down with a wet cloth with a bit of mild detergent on it. Then rinse it off with a water-only cloth. I write “infrequently” because the mudguards, coatguard and full chaincase keep the bicycle and myself very clean.
Secure bike parks are looking really good business these days in London. But you have to be near a big station, and I’m not sure the Kickstand would have the demand. Change facilities need to be onsite, too.
I love the number/licence plates! ‘TXT-ME2′ and ‘A1-DVR’ sums a lot of drivers up – thinking that they are wonderful and having a conversation instead of concentrating on the job of driving
On a different subject – I was wondering what the noise was as I was typing so I just looked out of the window. Yesterday it rained in the morning and then the freeze arrived and around 15))/3:00 o clock the snow started. We got about 1-2″ of it. Laid on a slippery base. I live on a short hill less than 1/4 mile long but steepish and the snow has been compacted by buses and polished by commuters. I don’t know when the school run will start today but there is already a traffic jam – going DOWN the hill! I am glad my wife is working from home today, I don’t know when I would see her tonight otherwise.
Saw one like that in Pleasanton, CA, as well. And in my hometown of Bishop the LBS Aerohead Cycles keeps a pressurized Schrader chuck with a Presta adapter on a nail, if you know where to look.
Will there be a coffee shop? Even in a near-saturated market that might help Yehuda and Joe support their bike shop habit and would certainly provide characters and plot lines with easy entree into the strip.
Kudos to Yehuda on proper positioning of the sharrows. I don’t approve of sharrows, but at least he positioned them so that a cyclist in the centre of the symbol is properly taking the lane.
With Joe’s plans my only fear is the shop will be designed as a cathedral to performance riding and every square inch of the place will be devoted to neon spaceman suits, hideous wraparound sunglasses, carbon fiber frames and ultralight ceramic whatchamacallits.
Mountain bike stores can be performance oriented stores too. A lot of those guys and girls are way too into overpriced components, neon space alien suits, hideous wraparound glasses, ultralight ceramic whatchamacallits and turn their noses up at customers who are not buying racing grade bikes and components. My annoying performance oriented store specializes in selling too expensive and overbuilt carbon fiber racing road bikes AND racing mountain bikes. Although I’m sure they’d be happy to sell the average casual weekend hobbyist a $4000 cross bike as well.
SDMSS described most of the stores I’ve seen. I tend to lump mountain bikes and “high-performance” road bikes together because I’m not interested in either. The things I like (touring bikes, especially old-style ones) are much less common. What I’d like to see is someplace that specializes in Rivendell or Velo Orange style bikes and accessories. Shops that actually carry things like rear racks or panniers usually stock a very small selection of only the most expensive stuff.
I’m lucky in that I have commuter oriented shop a few blocks from me. They carry a couple touring frames, the Jamis Aurora Elite and the Surly LHT (pretty much the same two that everyone else carries), and they keep some fancy VO stuff on display. More importantly, though, the workers and owners are commuter oriented so they’re in tune with my needs and know the answers to my questions. Also, VO is 30 miles away, and they do sell retail if I wanted to go down and buy from them direct, but since I have to pay in state sales tax for their stuff plus regular price regardless I just order my VO stuff through my bike shop so they can get their cut.
Fortunately I have a good shop in my area, although it’s about 25 miles away. They’re a small shop and they carry mostly fancy road bikes and mountain bikes, but the staff are friendly and knowledgable about the kind of bikes I like. They have a good selection of Park tools and necessities like lubes and bearings and such, and they have an “old parts box” in the back that has yielded parts I needed for my vintage bike on more than one occasion. On my first visit there, one of the wrenches came out of the back and struck up a conversation with me. When he found out I ride an ’81 Univega Gran Turismo he said, “Cool! We used to sell those. I love those old bikes” and proceeeded to discuss all sorts of things about vintage bikes that showed me he really knew his stuff. That became my favorite shop right on the spot. Their advice has saved me time and money while doing my own repairs several times. Although there’s another shop less than 5 miles away, and I ride near it frequently when I’m running other errands, I prefer to go to my favorite shop across town, even for something as simple as a bottle of Tri-Flow.
There are some good bike shops here in downtown TO for ordinary people going to work and all the places ordinary people go to. I recommend Curbside Cycle, Urbane Cycle, Dukes and Sweet Pete’s. Outside of The Bike Joint there is usually a good assortment of used bikes for sale.
Car racing is a sport too. That doesn’t mean that most car dealerships should be focusing on Indy and Formula 1 racers.
Also, when you guys are zooming around in your cycling panties why do you have your faces twisted and contorted like I do when I’m trying to pinch out a turd? Why can’t you guys smile?
Don’t worry — merchandising is WAY easier to change than floor plan. It’s a matter of a few minute’s work to move all the sunglasses off pegs and slip on the bike bells.
Last of the pieces of the original Kickstand Cyclery shipped out today to patrons. Let me know via comics @ yehudamoon.com if you didn’t get your box (by around December 28, 2010, though most will reach patrons by the 25th).
At least one off the Bicycle Warehouse stores here has an indoor flat area suitable fofr very mild test riding. It’s more an obstacle-ish course. It’s great for letitng children to a test ride. Don’t try to go to the 5311 chainring-cog combo and a cadence of 90 revs per minute or you’ll go through the wall.
Lord help them…
My best bet is that they rejected Yehuda’s plans and stuck with Joe’s instead.
That seems to be Rick’s intention!
Let Thistle design it…
Captain Obvious says….Yes.
It doesn’t need to be either or type of decision it can be an andtype of decision
http://www.mellowjohnnys.com/ Mellow Jhonny’s here in downtown Austin has the sales floor and even the service area where you can see the wrench working on your ride but also it has a cafe for a coffee and a bite and downstairs has a bike-locker for commuters and a shower for bike commuters.
Now if only they hada velodrome!
Does it have a pharmacy (sorry couldn’t resit it…)?
FU Iga. Floyd isn’t a client.
Maybe not, but is Lance?
Mr Gundarsson owns Mellow Jonnys doesn’t he?
I love the velodrome plan! Just imagine if all bike shops had a safe place to test their bikes before you bought and to receive training off-road before you start vehicular riding! Just like some motor schools?
Ever fallen off the banking on a track? Thankfully me neither but I’ve seen plenty of wood burns, huge splinters, several broken collarbones and wrists and even two guys in a coma (both recovered luckily but they were never rode the same again). Velodromes are not as safe as they look and riding a track bears little relation to riding on the road or off-road-trails…
i always found the velodrome to be much safer…. in road racing, people have brakes and they use them!
Also, the road is generally much dirtier, debris-laden, and often has very large potholes to dodge. i’ll take the track any day.
The great thing about the track is that most people do not try it for fun until they have mastered bike handling skills on the road. You are so much less likely to be crashed by a newbie that in a group ride.
@NHHJim – Especially when you are coached by Mike Walden, Claire Young, and Fred Cappy!
@mike w. Potholes… ever ridden Dorais? AKA Paris-Dorais.
Dorais was built for the ’69 US National track championships in Detroit (Warren to be precise). It was located in a neighborhood that eventually succumbed to urban decay. The Wolverine Sports Club maintained the track the best that they could but between the local vandals and a fickle water table, the track eroded into history. Dorais was home track to America’s best riders including World and Olympic Champions Sue Novara and Sheila Young and Olympic Gold medalist Dave Grylls as well as other National, Olympic, and professional team riders such Roger Young, Tom Schuler, Noel Dejonckere, Danny VanHaute, and even some dude name Jim House.
I think that dodging potholes, glass, frost heaves, and shopping carts made us all better bike handlers.
Never rode Dorais, but Brown Deer near Milwaukee. No potholes there, but it was a sunny day and the large tar patches the parks dept. put in were very slippery. IIRC, alleged banking was about <10 deg. and the gears were restricted to 84 or 86.
Kissena was pretty decayed until recently, i’ve heard.
Ed Rudolph velo’ had no apron back when i started riding there…. if you got pushed into the infield, getting back on the track was a real adventure! That’s changed now.
Kenosha has some pretty interesting bumps and long cracks, but i hear that they’re fixing them for next season… Back in the day if you got pushed over the west banking you could’ve ended up in the parking lot, but they put in a proper fence long since.
I saw Danny VanHaute ride as a young junior… he was beating up the big guys back then, too…
@ mike.w – I see your point but, to paraphrase you … on the track you don’t have brakes and you can’t use them…
Every track I have ridden require that novices do an induction course before they can ride unaccompanied. All-in-all the track is a complex, mentally intense experience with a LONG way to fall if you get it wrong at the top of the banking, the constant need to travel fast enough not to slide off, no real way of stopping quickly apart from gravity and brute force, always having to pedal and be very aware of what’s going on around you including two other directions which you don’t normally have to consider and finally – a little dust or moisture WILL cause a crash.
Not a place for newbies, a big flat car-park is better for the uninitiated.
On my “home” track, they now put newbies through 510 training sessions before letting them race. Even though i had been a cat 3, i had to do my time back in the fives after my 20-year hiatus.
The other nearby track has no such requirements, and neither did hometrack back years ago. The difference in number of crashes is dramatic.
i still say though, track racing is much safer than road -where the falls can be just as long and nasty.
And my point about brakes? No one will be slamming the Italian Anchors in front of you. Generally i find it much more comfortable riding in a track pack than a road bunch precisely because no one can brake suddenly or coast down mid-pack.
Coventry once had a Velodrome. In the grounds of ‘Coventry Technical College’ – ‘The Butts’. I once tried to ride there but as young and ignorent as I was, I didn’t know about the rule that I needed Mongo’s bike to ride there! My 3-speed commuter was completely wrong for the job. The staff were too polite to tell me to get lost, just said ‘No’ after each attempt at stripping my bike a bit more and trying again, without saying what I needed was a fixie, just a frame with minimum attachments to ride it. I have never forgotten my disappointment. It was torn down a few years ago after many decades of braving the weather and little use. Shame, in Coventry of all places! The birthplace of the diamond frame etc.
Cleveland needs a velodrome. http://www.fixedgearfever.com/modules.php?name=Velodromes&op=map
Maybe Dale Hughes can build it for Yehuda?
The velodrome where I ride requires that you have a track frame, fixed gear, and no brakes. Because it’s taken seriously it is very safe and I would argue that those 45 degree walls look a lot more intimdating than they really are. Velodrome’s are a lot of fun and a great change of pace but they are a bit like running on a tredmill; you work and work but never go anywhere. Even though you have to put up with cars on the roads, you are going somewhere, seeing things, enjoying the surroundings.
something like the Redbull Mini Drome would be awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7HfGVqpRS8
Mini drome is gay.
I start all of the kids I coach on the velodrome. No cars, no dogs, no potholes, no trees, and mom-n-dad can see them the whole time. My youngest one started out as a 7 year old
The bike wash sounds like a good idea though – coin-operated maybe to generate a little bit extra for the shop?
It should be drive-thru, just like at the gas stations. I can think of some cyclists that I know that would really benefit by just such a device.
It is necessary to be careful with bike washes. With some bikes you can force water into places that it was not designed to go.
I infrequently wipe my Pashley down with a wet cloth with a bit of mild detergent on it. Then rinse it off with a water-only cloth. I write “infrequently” because the mudguards, coatguard and full chaincase keep the bicycle and myself very clean.
Only with internal gears Kevin. Deraileurs etc prosper from a good hard water jet – so long a you lube the parts afterwards!
Secure bike parks are looking really good business these days in London. But you have to be near a big station, and I’m not sure the Kickstand would have the demand. Change facilities need to be onsite, too.
I like Yehuda’s plan. Just add the service and showroom and you’ve got everything right there. Ya!
I love the number/licence plates! ‘TXT-ME2′ and ‘A1-DVR’ sums a lot of drivers up – thinking that they are wonderful and having a conversation instead of concentrating on the job of driving
Missed that at first, Thanks for pointing it out
Gotta get better at stuff like that
Good eye, Tencon.
On a different subject – I was wondering what the noise was as I was typing so I just looked out of the window. Yesterday it rained in the morning and then the freeze arrived and around 15))/3:00 o clock the snow started. We got about 1-2″ of it. Laid on a slippery base. I live on a short hill less than 1/4 mile long but steepish and the snow has been compacted by buses and polished by commuters. I don’t know when the school run will start today but there is already a traffic jam – going DOWN the hill! I am glad my wife is working from home today, I don’t know when I would see her tonight otherwise.
I’d like our bike shops to have outdoor pumps… that would be cool.
A bike store in Los Gatos, CA has figured out how to lock a pump to their outdoor bike rack.
Saw one like that in Pleasanton, CA, as well. And in my hometown of Bishop the LBS Aerohead Cycles keeps a pressurized Schrader chuck with a Presta adapter on a nail, if you know where to look.
Will there be a coffee shop? Even in a near-saturated market that might help Yehuda and Joe support their bike shop habit and would certainly provide characters and plot lines with easy entree into the strip.
+1 on the bike/coffe shop. We have one in Rockland, I really enjoyed the place when I was there.
I hope they keep the commuting changing station, as that would double as a fitting room.
What if they call Thistle to help out, she had great ideas in the past I bet that if she can start a store from the ground up, it will be great!
DTLA bikes in the heart of…well, downtown Los Angeles ahs a (flat) indoor track for try-before-you-buy. http://dtlabikes.com/
Don’t know much else about them except that the staff & owner seem like real nice folks.
They are in the basement of an old Art Deco department store–very cool!
Always love the strip stories, but this is the biggest laugh I’ve had from it in a while.
Kudos to Yehuda on proper positioning of the sharrows. I don’t approve of sharrows, but at least he positioned them so that a cyclist in the centre of the symbol is properly taking the lane.
Yeah, it’s not a sharrow if it’s in the gutter. Glad to see that Yehuda was reviewing the guidelines from the Feds before placing them.
FLAP Stencil Placement FTW.
Hey, I should change my Bikeforums name. FLAP. Definitely.
With Joe’s plans my only fear is the shop will be designed as a cathedral to performance riding and every square inch of the place will be devoted to neon spaceman suits, hideous wraparound sunglasses, carbon fiber frames and ultralight ceramic whatchamacallits.
In other words, just like most bike shops i’ve seen in recent years.
Don’t you have mountain bike stores where you are? (Considering that I’m in the Mountain State, they seem to be the majority here.)
Shameless plug for my buddy Adam’s place: http://wvcompanybicyle.com
Maybe there is a ‘c’ missing and the link should be: http://wvcompanybicycle.com/ ?
Mountain bike stores can be performance oriented stores too. A lot of those guys and girls are way too into overpriced components, neon space alien suits, hideous wraparound glasses, ultralight ceramic whatchamacallits and turn their noses up at customers who are not buying racing grade bikes and components. My annoying performance oriented store specializes in selling too expensive and overbuilt carbon fiber racing road bikes AND racing mountain bikes. Although I’m sure they’d be happy to sell the average casual weekend hobbyist a $4000 cross bike as well.
Adam’s not like that. Next time you’re in our neck of the woods, come and see him. Tell him I sent you.
SDMSS described most of the stores I’ve seen. I tend to lump mountain bikes and “high-performance” road bikes together because I’m not interested in either. The things I like (touring bikes, especially old-style ones) are much less common. What I’d like to see is someplace that specializes in Rivendell or Velo Orange style bikes and accessories. Shops that actually carry things like rear racks or panniers usually stock a very small selection of only the most expensive stuff.
I’m lucky in that I have commuter oriented shop a few blocks from me. They carry a couple touring frames, the Jamis Aurora Elite and the Surly LHT (pretty much the same two that everyone else carries), and they keep some fancy VO stuff on display. More importantly, though, the workers and owners are commuter oriented so they’re in tune with my needs and know the answers to my questions. Also, VO is 30 miles away, and they do sell retail if I wanted to go down and buy from them direct, but since I have to pay in state sales tax for their stuff plus regular price regardless I just order my VO stuff through my bike shop so they can get their cut.
Fortunately I have a good shop in my area, although it’s about 25 miles away. They’re a small shop and they carry mostly fancy road bikes and mountain bikes, but the staff are friendly and knowledgable about the kind of bikes I like. They have a good selection of Park tools and necessities like lubes and bearings and such, and they have an “old parts box” in the back that has yielded parts I needed for my vintage bike on more than one occasion. On my first visit there, one of the wrenches came out of the back and struck up a conversation with me. When he found out I ride an ’81 Univega Gran Turismo he said, “Cool! We used to sell those. I love those old bikes” and proceeeded to discuss all sorts of things about vintage bikes that showed me he really knew his stuff. That became my favorite shop right on the spot. Their advice has saved me time and money while doing my own repairs several times. Although there’s another shop less than 5 miles away, and I ride near it frequently when I’m running other errands, I prefer to go to my favorite shop across town, even for something as simple as a bottle of Tri-Flow.
Why can’t I ‘like’ twice or put a number to say how much?
There are some good bike shops here in downtown TO for ordinary people going to work and all the places ordinary people go to. I recommend Curbside Cycle, Urbane Cycle, Dukes and Sweet Pete’s. Outside of The Bike Joint there is usually a good assortment of used bikes for sale.
“Look at ‘em, ordinary fucking people, I hate ‘em.” – Bud, Repoman
Cycling is a sport. Deal with it.
Car racing is a sport too. That doesn’t mean that most car dealerships should be focusing on Indy and Formula 1 racers.
Also, when you guys are zooming around in your cycling panties why do you have your faces twisted and contorted like I do when I’m trying to pinch out a turd? Why can’t you guys smile?
Don’t worry — merchandising is WAY easier to change than floor plan. It’s a matter of a few minute’s work to move all the sunglasses off pegs and slip on the bike bells.
I would deff use Yehuda’s ideas. Im sure Joe will have a spandex section and tv running TDF 24 hrs
As any good shop would.
Last of the pieces of the original Kickstand Cyclery shipped out today to patrons. Let me know via comics @ yehudamoon.com if you didn’t get your box (by around December 28, 2010, though most will reach patrons by the 25th).
definitely good to get yehuda out of the way while the shop is built, he’s a nutcase! He’s looking for a bicycle theme park!
With proper attitude, the whole world is a “bicycle theme park”.
At least one off the Bicycle Warehouse stores here has an indoor flat area suitable fofr very mild test riding. It’s more an obstacle-ish course. It’s great for letitng children to a test ride. Don’t try to go to the 5311 chainring-cog combo and a cadence of 90 revs per minute or you’ll go through the wall.