Don’t forget about the internal hub brakes, chaincase and coatguard. Then you’ve got my Pashley Roadster Sovereign. Because I can’t resist, here’s a photo and description at:
Not the one he wanted – if he’s like most of the kids that come into our shop, he will want an MTB with 2″ tyres, no fenders and huge nobbles. Maybe they like the vibration down there? I tried an MTB a while back: slow, heavy and difficult to manhandle off the bike.
Why do they want them? Fashion I guess, but you can’t confince them different. Also, I needed the toilet after 5-minutes!
Have you ever thought that maybe they wanted MTBs because they like to ride off-road, jump, take their bikes on road-trips to the mountains, take part in competitions etc.? Because an MTB is one of the best means of getting away from civilisation for a while? Some people actually do treat cycling as a sport/hobby and not as a tool for doing politics, you know
In England? Cumbria, maybe the Peak District, but not as many opportunities as the USA to get the best from an MTB. Suspension etc is mainly for ‘downhill’ on the mountains - only sucks the effort out of pedalling otherwise. In the UK only Wales and Scotland have the wider spaces to ‘downhill’ for any length of time. I know there is plenty of ‘practise’ areas, but by USA standards, few opportunities to spend all day on ONE slope before going back to the top. And none at all for the more X-games type stuff. We need to make artificial areas otherwise. All the kids see the X-games athletes performing and want to emulate them, are very disappointed when they find out the lack of places to practise limits them and unless their parent/s can transport them, they are stuck. (I am talking about Coventry here – just a few small river-based valleys. My old school had an altitude of around 25ft at the bottom of the playing fields. The highest point in the West Midlands, ‘The Wrekin’ is an hour’s walk to the top at 1,335 ft. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrekin) Kids don’t really get the best from a full-sus MTB and get fed-up with them Others think the suspension etc will be good to manage the potholes instead of learning to avoid them (like all 600c-road-tyred bikes have to) They can’t be convinced – ‘what type of bike?’ ans:(MTB) everytime. Only when the charity ride students come in do we get to sell the diamond-framed road bikes unless it is to an experienced oldster.
@tencon, “Suspension etc is mainly for ‘downhill’ on the mountains - only sucks the effort out of pedalling otherwise.”
Ummm, sounds like a statement heard in the early 90′s. Sorry but front suspensions actually help one climb by allowing one to roll over bumps and maintain forward momentum. At least legitimate ones that aren’t just ornamental.
Rear suspensions vary. There are downhill specific designs that won’t help you on climbs but good cross country designs won’t impede you one climbing especialy on technical and rough trails. In fact certain designs can actually increase rear tire traction. On non-technical and smooth trails the advantage of suspension diminishes and a rigid fork or frame can outperform the heavier suspended design.
To an engineering approximation, nobody rides mountain bikes on “mountains”. They buy the bike in the hopes that they will, but they don’t. Same for amazing crabon bikes with aero everything, etc — people hope that riding Lance’s bike will turn them into Lance.
dr2chase, that’s quite pessimistic, I actually do make the effort to take my MTB to the mountains, although I do not live in them
Tencon, I get your point, I know that in some areas it’s hard to find good spots for mountain biking, but it’s rarely impossible. I’m from Poland, we’ve got ‘real’ mountains only in the south of the country, but to me, going there even for two weeks a year is a good enough justification for owning an MTB (a steel hardtail in my case). Besides, there are some trails near my hometown where a mountain bike is not out of place. On the other hand, I also own a road bike (an 80′s raleigh mercury), which I use for commuting and training, so I do perfectly understand how much road bikes are better on asphalt roads. I appreciate different aspects of cycling, that’s why I tried to somehow excuse the MTB-buying kids
Some of the most challenging and difficult trails are not in the mountains either. My “home trail” is situated in a glacial moraine and is far more technical than what I rode in Durango, CO.
To commute in Cleveland would require fenders for rain, snow, slush. Fat tires will roll over broken bottles and pot holes better also. But if you want to look cool, be seen with stripes on your clothes and fixing flats and broken spokes on a sleek road bike.
Hello Kevin – When you get more than a few miles on those tyres without a puncture we’ll listen. I bought a set and after not getting a puncture for decades, I got one first time out, a small nail. NO tyre is puncture PROOF! Also, you need good innertubes to go with them, thick walled ones. The combination probably weighs more than the rim – no weight-weeny stuff here…
“Hello Kevin – When you get more than a few miles on those tyres without a puncture we’ll listen.”
Tencon – I’ll back the man up about the SMP tires. I put 4300 miles on a pair without flatting, even after I had to pull a carton staple from one of them. I gave the bike to a friend and he’s put an additional 2000-ish miles on it without any problems, and the tires are still going strong. Nothing special about the tubes. You’re right about them being heavy, though. I wouldn’t put a pair of them on my brevet bike, since one 32mm SMP outweighs the pair of 32mm Pasela TGs I have on there now.
The “heavy” Schwalbes weigh about an extra 400g. Big deal. I carry more than 10 times that weight with briefcase, etc going to work. It also wouldn’t kill me to lose 20 times that weight off my body.
I predict that the difference in tyre weight would be completely unnoticible to the vast majority of cyclists around here. But not getting a puncture is definitely noticible.
Every notice that Murphy’s Law kicks in and the puncture always happens at the worst possible time? When late to some important meeting or event?
yeah, the puncture i got on my schwalbe marathon plus tire happened on the way to work. luckily, i have a bike that isn’t a colossal pain in the ass to fix on the go, so i wasn’t really late.
It’s not the weight that makes those tires slow, it’s the stiffness of the flatproofing, and the unnecessaily thick sidewalls of a lot of them (you want a bit of protection against curb scrapes, ozone and UV decay, but I’ve never cut a sidewall while on pavement in tens of thousands of miles of riding, so I don’t get why they’re so gratuitously overbuilt). I definitely notice the difference. I never thought my 10km commute was particularly long, but I’m not afraid of flats and only get a few a year so I’d still rather take 5 minutes once in a while to swap tubes so I can use more efficient tires. No pneumatic tire is 100% flatproof, and I’ve picked up some pretty nasty nails on Toronto streets that might even defeat a SMP, so I’d still need to carry a pump, tube, and patches.
Tourguard Paselas seem to be a decent compromise – not too slow, with the protection where you need it. I’d like to get a set for the city bike for winter and the snowbank-melt broken glass season, if I can find ‘em in the right size.
I should clarify… I’ve tried and discarded other heavy duty belted tires, but not the SMP, which doesn’t really interest me until and unless goathead vines invade Southern Ontario.
Kevy, “It also wouldn’t kill me to lose 20 times that weight off my body. ” NOT losing that weight could kill you. Have you considered ditching the motorcycle for a bicycle? You’d burn off the fat and get some healthful excerise all while reducing polution. Do you have any idea how many people die from Toronto’s polluted air each year?
Kevy, the shops I have worked at have refused to carry Schwalbes after an initial order. We found them to be (at least at the time) crap. Lousy weak sidewalls, not round, poor quality beads, and the tubes were even less impressive. We assumed they must be an East German company until we searched them down on the map. Not everything German is quality. I’ll stick with Vredstein, Conti, Michelin or Vittoria.
That sums-up my response – I couldn’t believe the flimsy sidewall! During two years at the shop, I have seen more sidewall punctures than the 40+ years of riding! Maybe today’s nails are a different breed, designed to get the sidewall?
This is different from my experience. I’ve been using Big Apples for a while, they have low rolling resistance, are relatively flat resistant (until I wear the tread off), and none of the problems that you describe.
For winter tires, however, I recommend Nokians; I’ve tried 2 different Nokians, and 2 different Schwalbes, and the Nokians provide better traction.
it’s all about compromise I really wanted a fixie with track drops, but I also wanted to commute so I put commute friendly parts on my fixxed gear and I pretty much ride year round in New England
Why not bull horns? They’re great for a fast city bike. I went back to drops myself mostly because I often get fierce headwinds riding home along Lake Ontario.
Bullhorns because out of the 4 different bars I tried those were the most comfortable. the top tube pad for 2 reasons one because I was tired of repainting the top tube with rattlecan from my lock and chain and two because I was banging my knees on the top tube when I skided
Not true, I commuted in Cleveland year round without fenders. My rear rack has a platform, so it acted as a mini fender. My feet would get wet, but there are articles of clothing to protect my feet. I have thought about getting fenders, but just never did.
I’m not sure what you mean by fat tires, are my 32′s fat? That is what I typically rode. My studded tires are 35′s. I rarely got flats, I can only recall two flats in the last three years. Of course, I don’t ride in the gutter where all the broken glass is.
FAT means 2″? I tried 40s on my Pollard, they were too fat and rubbed the frame – When I stopped, the innertube burst and took the tyre bead off the rim at the frame/tyre contact point. Maybe localised heat? There was about 5mm gap when I started. I went down to 35s and it seems okay now. At least my new trailer tows comfortably with my tools in (about 20lb in each of 3 boxes and a backpack)
@ Lou – I was astounded by how simpler commuting was with fenders. I did a rack and foot protection for several years until my dad got on a fender kick. Since my feet stay much, much drier (with some attention pedal position through puddles) that I don’t need booties. And even with a rack, I would get a wet fanny now and then.
Sometimes I even take my commute bike (with lighter wheels) on training rides. I’m warmer. It also gives my friends something to talk about!
Breaking spokes is a sign of an improperly built wheel not one of tire width. In 40 years of riding I’ve only broken spokes on oem wheels or experimental designs. I’ve got over 10,000 miles on a set of Rolf’s that only 10 spokes front and 12 in the rear. This combined with 23 mm tires, a 180lb rider who can kick out 1600 peak watts and your conventional wisdom is proven false. The same wheels have been cyclocrossed and raced on cobbles.
Don’t get me started on carbon. Used properly it will outlast steel. Any material used improperly will yeild poor results. It is a matter of quality not material.
All you say is true Unabiker, I understood Lou to mean flimsy wheels, not thin ones. Inherently 23,25 and 25 tyres will be more flimsy than 32/35 etc. Assuming the rims are the same, the fatter tyres absorb the shocks and the rim survives better. There is a huge difference in air volume between a 20-something and a 30-something. my new 35s are a massive change from the 23s – like a featherbed in comparison! (But much slower and harder work: energy-sapping ‘suspension’!) I wanted ‘smoother’ I got it. Now I pay the price.
Tencon: 35s don’t have to be slow – it’s the casing, not the width, that really affects speed. It’s just that wide tires tend to be overbuilt with stiff sidewalls and flatproof belts that sap energy. I’m riding on Pasela 32s and 35s (the non-tourguard ones), I don’t feel like they slow me down and they’re great on bad roads and dirt roads.
Some do business that way, but not all. A couple of years ago I went to the nearest shop to buy a dust sleeve for my cup-and-cone bottom bracket. They told me that such BBs were obsolete and that it wasn’t even possible to order parts for them anymore. However, they would be happy to replace my otherwise-perfect BB with a whole new sealed-cartidge BB. So I went across town to my favorite shop, where the mechanic pulled out a box with several different types of BB dust sleeves and said, “Take your pick.” I think he charged me $2.00 for the one I needed. (Oh, and as for not being able to order them? Harris Cyclery has them online for $1.95 each.)
You can make your own dust sleve for cup-and-cone bottom brackets, using an aluminum beverage can and a pair of scissors. Cut the sidewall of the can into a round strip just able to cover the non-threaded space inside the BB shell. Use the container of a beverage you enjoy, for extra bike karma.
No i did not think of this myself, read it 25 yrs ago in a bike repair book. It’s worked well for me the times I’ve used the technique!
Yehuda (as far as I have understood his history) once had quite some money. But then he ‘sold his last shirt’ (German saying) to buy the Kickstand AND he does housesitting for extra money or sleeps in the Kikstand.
So his share of the shop did cost everything he had AND don’t pay him a place of his own.
The Kickstand don’t make enough money to pay Thistle’s work until now, it won’t be able to pay her enough for her family in the future.
Now, Thistle NEEDS money and does not have some extra to buy the Kickstand.
When someone sells his ‘last shirt’ he’s already sold /everything/ else he ever had, including his house.
If Yehuda had ‘a few dollars left over’ he would not do housesitting – and he would be able to rent a place of his own instead of sleeping in the Kickstand.
Yeah, now there’s a plan. What with not getting paid in the first place, plus the only breadwinner in her family losing his job, I’m sure there’s all kinds of spare cash* lying around.
I can see both sides of this one. On the one hand, if Yehuda sells the guy a bike he doesn’t really want, he probably won’t ride it much and it’ll spend most of its time in the garage. On the other hand, if the guy gets a bike that isn’t suitable for his needs, he’ll soon become frustrated and again, he won’t want to ride it. The customer needs to understand the reasons for the recommended bike and why it will be more enjoyable for him to ride it. Yehuda is wise to get Thistle to explain it rather than just insisting, “Our infallible questionnaire knows better than you, so just shut up and do what it tells you.”
I’m with Widsith on this one. You have to kind of lead the customer down the path of “why” a certain product is the one recommended…but a really good salesperson will do some serious listening as well…
I see both sides of this one, too. The customer is a fairly young guy, and obviously doesn’t know what he needs. He doesn’t know what he wants, either, but he does know what he *doesn’t* want. You lose a sale when you don’t listen. Feel free to suggest all the things you think will make his riding better, but let him have what he wants: it’s still a toy in his eyes, and you’ll make no headway with logic as long as that’s where his head is.
My first bike purchase was a used steel Fuji. Great bike, but I didn’t think it was what I needed at the time. Bought a Trek 850 rigid (and refused to buy until they got the color I liked), and did everything with it: single-track, double-track, but it was mostly my primary form of transportation. Got back to the Fuji later, but only because I was able to enjoy riding what I wanted, and then learn what I wanted and needed.
The fat guy’s been unemployed for only 12hrs, why cant he bounce back and find something else quick. Someone with ressources does not stay in that situation very long.
And about Thistle, if not paid by the KS, she’s pretty much in the same situation a M.T, what if the engineering firm does not need her!!!!
I saw her today at the reception
A glass of wine in her hand
I knew she was gonna meet her connection
At her feet was her footloose man
And I went down to the demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, “We’re gonna vent our frustration
If we don’t we’re gonna blow a 50-amp fuse”
Sing it to me now…
I went down to the Chelsea drugstore
To get your prescription filled
I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy
And man, did he look pretty ill
We decided that we would have a soda
My favorite flavor, cherry red
I sung my song to Mr. Jimmy
Yeah, and he said one word to me, and that was “dead”
I saw her today at the reception
In her glass was a bleeding man
She was practiced at the art of deception
Well I could tell by her blood-stained hands
There’s nothing to suggest that the her previous employer would take her back if she asked. Look at all the unemployed highly technical people who have been unemployed for years due to the bad economy.
When Thistle did a good job before bekomming pregnant with Fizz and her successor does a lesser job …
It might be, Thistle left a hole in her firm.
She’s left her job not because of quality or low economy but because of pregnancy, so I think her value for her former firm might still exist.
Her husband just got fired (we don’t know the reason jet), so he might have some bad reputation when looking for a new job.
So I think it’s worth a try for Thistle – even when it’s bad for the Kickstand.
Mr. Thistle seems sure her old firm will take her. Perhaps they’ve asked her back and she’s said ‘no’?
We don’t know what line of work Mr. Thistle is in. If he is in a field that would require a strong science-math background, he could probably get a later-entry teaching certificate; most public schools need teachers in scientific subjects. He could work pretty steadily as a sub if nothing else, then he’d be in place if/when a regular position came up.
As for the customer, the LBS I most frequently use is Company Bicycle (http://wvcompanybicycle.com); Adam is great–he has the passion of Yehuda, the technical knowledge of Thistle (BSMET, WVTech), and the business savvy of Joe & Fred. His shop is too small to keep much in stock, but he will interview you and ascertain your needs, then custom order a bike that fits your needs. Anyone coming through Charleston, please go see Adam.
Mmmm, perhaps we don’t know enough about Thistle? Go back to http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=20100904 and note that Mr. asks “Can you call the engineering firm and see if they can give you some hours?”
Perhaps she is a partner in the engineering firm who has voluntarilly been on sabatical to raise Fizz? If it were part of the LLC agreement than she might not get paid anything if she doesn’t perform work. Many LLC’s are set up this way. Mr. never said “ask for your job back” which would infer that she quit or such. Maybe.
Yehuda is passionate about bicycles—the kind of bikes built by the French Constructeurs in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s: Rene Herse, Alex Singer etc. The philosophy of cycling reflected in Bicycle Quarterly, and bikes in the book: The Golden Age of Handbuilt bicycles. These are Randonneur or Brevet bikes, and the Porteur bikes used to deliver newspapers in Paris in the 30s thru 60s. They are built to be long distance racing bikes, light touring bikes for nature excursions, Also Paris-Brest-Paris. These bikes also make great all-purpose commuter bikes. Steel-framed (preferrably lugged) tires anywhere from 32 to 42 mm, often 650B., light weight components, fenders light like Honjo) low trail geometry with front rack, generator lights etc. These bikes are light, fast, durable, and responsive. Several frame makers currently specialize in these bikes, very high quality. The Kogswell P/R(porteur/randonneur) is a recent tig welded version. Hiroshi Iimura designs great lugged steel framed (japanese made) bikes. Also Belinky and others.
Passionate, yes, but Yehuda rode that Dutch tank of a Van Sweringen and preached the tiresome utiity mantra until they finally got him on a Rapid and he started enjoying cycling because he had a fun bike. French style porteurs and randonneurs are a happy revelation I think are still in his future.
her husband should grab one of those things get a chrome pro series and get on the street and get bag to work,…you dont mope after you lose your job….get to messengering ( assuming this is cleveland) it’s not there’s a concentrated downtown or anything…he would have LONG rts to University Circle, it would do him good, get him some back boen…the term tool comes to mind…
Oh god no, that’s the last thing he should do. I was a messenger, it’s dangerous, everything about it sucks, and you’ve got no time or energy left for life, or for finding a real job. At least McDonalds is safe and pays minimum wage.
if the guy knows what he wants, why make him take the questionnaire in the first place?
I hope yehuda has a brain fart and realizes that his preaching is wasting his investment. Maybe Sister Sprocket will take him aside and get the point through. the comic would suck without the shop.
He THINKS, he knows. But he says, “I need a bike to do X, Y, and Z. I want bike A.” If bike A is not suitable for X, Y, and Z, then he doesn’t really know what he wants. Someone needs to explain why bike A is not suitable for his needs. That’s where Thistle comes in.
Maybe Thistle and hubby could get a loan and BUY the Kickstand, employ current staff and run it better- her way with no lip from Yehuda! Week-by-week, Day-by-day she starts to ‘get’ Yehuda’s outlooks and markets a new bike along a hybrid concept of utility-bike, sports style?
People with good steady income and good credit ratings are having trouble getting loans these days. Ain’t no bank gonna hand out money* to the Thistle family, the shape they’re in.
Mongo, I think you are an educated man. Therefore, you surely know better than to use ‘ain’t’. Confucius said, “To know the right and not to do it is the greatest treason.”
And a commercial bank might not grant such a loan, but a credit union might. Credit unions are not-for-profit financial service cooperatives, hence they are a little more flexible than for-profit banks.
Most people would consider Mark Twain and Charles Dickens to be educated men, yet they used “ain’t” in their writings. They did so to achieve particular literary effects. I suspect Mongo uses it for the same reason.
Pay her already. She’s the only one with business sense.
Ah, automated systems overruling personal preference.
I wonder what kind of bike the questionnaire gave him ah.
At a wild guess I’d say one with fenders and fat tires.
and a dynamo-driven light, upright handlebars, and an internally-geared hub.
Plain flat pedals, no carbon, and some kind of rack for carrying stuff.
Don’t forget about the internal hub brakes, chaincase and coatguard. Then you’ve got my Pashley Roadster Sovereign. Because I can’t resist, here’s a photo and description at:
http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/roadster-sovereign.html
I’ve got the frame with the double top tube.
You say you have a Pashley? News to all of us, I’m sure.
A gold star for Mongo.
You forgot the big ding dong bell. Everybody at work has to flick it when they go by.
Yes!! My children just love my Pashley’s ding dong bell.
Not the one he wanted – if he’s like most of the kids that come into our shop, he will want an MTB with 2″ tyres, no fenders and huge nobbles. Maybe they like the vibration down there? I tried an MTB a while back: slow, heavy and difficult to manhandle off the bike.
Why do they want them? Fashion I guess, but you can’t confince them different. Also, I needed the toilet after 5-minutes!
Have you ever thought that maybe they wanted MTBs because they like to ride off-road, jump, take their bikes on road-trips to the mountains, take part in competitions etc.? Because an MTB is one of the best means of getting away from civilisation for a while? Some people actually do treat cycling as a sport/hobby and not as a tool for doing politics, you know
http://www.commuterbicycle.com/
http://www.breezerbikes.com/
http://breezerbikes.com/images/pdf/UptownAwards.jpg
In England? Cumbria, maybe the Peak District, but not as many opportunities as the USA to get the best from an MTB. Suspension etc is mainly for ‘downhill’ on the mountains - only sucks the effort out of pedalling otherwise. In the UK only Wales and Scotland have the wider spaces to ‘downhill’ for any length of time. I know there is plenty of ‘practise’ areas, but by USA standards, few opportunities to spend all day on ONE slope before going back to the top. And none at all for the more X-games type stuff. We need to make artificial areas otherwise. All the kids see the X-games athletes performing and want to emulate them, are very disappointed when they find out the lack of places to practise limits them and unless their parent/s can transport them, they are stuck. (I am talking about Coventry here – just a few small river-based valleys. My old school had an altitude of around 25ft at the bottom of the playing fields. The highest point in the West Midlands, ‘The Wrekin’ is an hour’s walk to the top at 1,335 ft. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrekin) Kids don’t really get the best from a full-sus MTB and get fed-up with them Others think the suspension etc will be good to manage the potholes instead of learning to avoid them (like all 600c-road-tyred bikes have to) They can’t be convinced – ‘what type of bike?’ ans:(MTB) everytime. Only when the charity ride students come in do we get to sell the diamond-framed road bikes unless it is to an experienced oldster.
@tencon, “Suspension etc is mainly for ‘downhill’ on the mountains - only sucks the effort out of pedalling otherwise.”
Ummm, sounds like a statement heard in the early 90′s. Sorry but front suspensions actually help one climb by allowing one to roll over bumps and maintain forward momentum. At least legitimate ones that aren’t just ornamental.
Rear suspensions vary. There are downhill specific designs that won’t help you on climbs but good cross country designs won’t impede you one climbing especialy on technical and rough trails. In fact certain designs can actually increase rear tire traction. On non-technical and smooth trails the advantage of suspension diminishes and a rigid fork or frame can outperform the heavier suspended design.
To an engineering approximation, nobody rides mountain bikes on “mountains”. They buy the bike in the hopes that they will, but they don’t. Same for amazing crabon bikes with aero everything, etc — people hope that riding Lance’s bike will turn them into Lance.
And that’s what’s going on here.
dr2chase, that’s quite pessimistic, I actually do make the effort to take my MTB to the mountains, although I do not live in them
Tencon, I get your point, I know that in some areas it’s hard to find good spots for mountain biking, but it’s rarely impossible. I’m from Poland, we’ve got ‘real’ mountains only in the south of the country, but to me, going there even for two weeks a year is a good enough justification for owning an MTB (a steel hardtail in my case). Besides, there are some trails near my hometown where a mountain bike is not out of place. On the other hand, I also own a road bike (an 80′s raleigh mercury), which I use for commuting and training, so I do perfectly understand how much road bikes are better on asphalt roads. I appreciate different aspects of cycling, that’s why I tried to somehow excuse the MTB-buying kids
Some of the most challenging and difficult trails are not in the mountains either. My “home trail” is situated in a glacial moraine and is far more technical than what I rode in Durango, CO.
this seems like its gonna turn out depressing
Kinda like Yehuda in the ditch.
yeah
i believe the stones sang “you can’t always get what you want; but sometimes, you get what you need.”
sometimes, yehuda needs a kick in the ass.
Yehuda is about to get a lesson on how it ain’t about him. High time.
Yikes….somebody needs a few swift lessons in true and tactful customer service!
Or a good swift kick in the ass…
To commute in Cleveland would require fenders for rain, snow, slush. Fat tires will roll over broken bottles and pot holes better also. But if you want to look cool, be seen with stripes on your clothes and fixing flats and broken spokes on a sleek road bike.
I can’t imagine commuting in Ohio without fenders. Yehuda’s probably right, but his way is wrong.
Or get a Pashley with Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres that come as factory standard equipment. Then you will never have to repair a puncture again.
Well, to be fair, nothing is 100% indestructible. But I’ve never yet got a puncture with my Schwalbes.
Hello Kevin – When you get more than a few miles on those tyres without a puncture we’ll listen. I bought a set and after not getting a puncture for decades, I got one first time out, a small nail. NO tyre is puncture PROOF! Also, you need good innertubes to go with them, thick walled ones. The combination probably weighs more than the rim – no weight-weeny stuff here…
“Hello Kevin – When you get more than a few miles on those tyres without a puncture we’ll listen.”
Tencon – I’ll back the man up about the SMP tires. I put 4300 miles on a pair without flatting, even after I had to pull a carton staple from one of them. I gave the bike to a friend and he’s put an additional 2000-ish miles on it without any problems, and the tires are still going strong. Nothing special about the tubes.
You’re right about them being heavy, though. I wouldn’t put a pair of them on my brevet bike, since one 32mm SMP outweighs the pair of 32mm Pasela TGs I have on there now.
Sorry Clifton – and Kevin! I was funning to get the responses you both handily gave, thank you. My puncture was true though. Bad Luck I guess…
The “heavy” Schwalbes weigh about an extra 400g. Big deal. I carry more than 10 times that weight with briefcase, etc going to work. It also wouldn’t kill me to lose 20 times that weight off my body.
I predict that the difference in tyre weight would be completely unnoticible to the vast majority of cyclists around here. But not getting a puncture is definitely noticible.
Every notice that Murphy’s Law kicks in and the puncture always happens at the worst possible time? When late to some important meeting or event?
yeah, the puncture i got on my schwalbe marathon plus tire happened on the way to work. luckily, i have a bike that isn’t a colossal pain in the ass to fix on the go, so i wasn’t really late.
It’s not the weight that makes those tires slow, it’s the stiffness of the flatproofing, and the unnecessaily thick sidewalls of a lot of them (you want a bit of protection against curb scrapes, ozone and UV decay, but I’ve never cut a sidewall while on pavement in tens of thousands of miles of riding, so I don’t get why they’re so gratuitously overbuilt). I definitely notice the difference. I never thought my 10km commute was particularly long, but I’m not afraid of flats and only get a few a year so I’d still rather take 5 minutes once in a while to swap tubes so I can use more efficient tires. No pneumatic tire is 100% flatproof, and I’ve picked up some pretty nasty nails on Toronto streets that might even defeat a SMP, so I’d still need to carry a pump, tube, and patches.
Tourguard Paselas seem to be a decent compromise – not too slow, with the protection where you need it. I’d like to get a set for the city bike for winter and the snowbank-melt broken glass season, if I can find ‘em in the right size.
I should clarify… I’ve tried and discarded other heavy duty belted tires, but not the SMP, which doesn’t really interest me until and unless goathead vines invade Southern Ontario.
Kevy, “It also wouldn’t kill me to lose 20 times that weight off my body. ” NOT losing that weight could kill you. Have you considered ditching the motorcycle for a bicycle? You’d burn off the fat and get some healthful excerise all while reducing polution. Do you have any idea how many people die from Toronto’s polluted air each year?
I got one within three months of actually riding my bike on Toronto streets.
Kevy, the shops I have worked at have refused to carry Schwalbes after an initial order. We found them to be (at least at the time) crap. Lousy weak sidewalls, not round, poor quality beads, and the tubes were even less impressive. We assumed they must be an East German company until we searched them down on the map. Not everything German is quality. I’ll stick with Vredstein, Conti, Michelin or Vittoria.
That sums-up my response – I couldn’t believe the flimsy sidewall! During two years at the shop, I have seen more sidewall punctures than the 40+ years of riding! Maybe today’s nails are a different breed, designed to get the sidewall?
re: Unabiker/Schwalbe
This is different from my experience. I’ve been using Big Apples for a while, they have low rolling resistance, are relatively flat resistant (until I wear the tread off), and none of the problems that you describe.
For winter tires, however, I recommend Nokians; I’ve tried 2 different Nokians, and 2 different Schwalbes, and the Nokians provide better traction.
it’s all about compromise I really wanted a fixie with track drops, but I also wanted to commute so I put commute friendly parts on my fixxed gear and I pretty much ride year round in New England
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k271/aikigecko/storage/fixed-1.jpg
Curious: why the bull horns and why the top tube pad?
Why not bull horns? They’re great for a fast city bike. I went back to drops myself mostly because I often get fierce headwinds riding home along Lake Ontario.
Bullhorns because out of the 4 different bars I tried those were the most comfortable. the top tube pad for 2 reasons one because I was tired of repainting the top tube with rattlecan from my lock and chain and two because I was banging my knees on the top tube when I skided
Not true, I commuted in Cleveland year round without fenders. My rear rack has a platform, so it acted as a mini fender. My feet would get wet, but there are articles of clothing to protect my feet. I have thought about getting fenders, but just never did.
I’m not sure what you mean by fat tires, are my 32′s fat? That is what I typically rode. My studded tires are 35′s. I rarely got flats, I can only recall two flats in the last three years. Of course, I don’t ride in the gutter where all the broken glass is.
FAT means 2″? I tried 40s on my Pollard, they were too fat and rubbed the frame – When I stopped, the innertube burst and took the tyre bead off the rim at the frame/tyre contact point. Maybe localised heat? There was about 5mm gap when I started. I went down to 35s and it seems okay now. At least my new trailer tows comfortably with my tools in (about 20lb in each of 3 boxes and a backpack)
@ Lou – I was astounded by how simpler commuting was with fenders. I did a rack and foot protection for several years until my dad got on a fender kick. Since my feet stay much, much drier (with some attention pedal position through puddles) that I don’t need booties. And even with a rack, I would get a wet fanny now and then.
Sometimes I even take my commute bike (with lighter wheels) on training rides. I’m warmer. It also gives my friends something to talk about!
Breaking spokes is a sign of an improperly built wheel not one of tire width. In 40 years of riding I’ve only broken spokes on oem wheels or experimental designs. I’ve got over 10,000 miles on a set of Rolf’s that only 10 spokes front and 12 in the rear. This combined with 23 mm tires, a 180lb rider who can kick out 1600 peak watts and your conventional wisdom is proven false. The same wheels have been cyclocrossed and raced on cobbles.
Don’t get me started on carbon. Used properly it will outlast steel. Any material used improperly will yeild poor results. It is a matter of quality not material.
True on the wheels. Most factory wheels are not tensioned properly.
All you say is true Unabiker, I understood Lou to mean flimsy wheels, not thin ones. Inherently 23,25 and 25 tyres will be more flimsy than 32/35 etc. Assuming the rims are the same, the fatter tyres absorb the shocks and the rim survives better. There is a huge difference in air volume between a 20-something and a 30-something. my new 35s are a massive change from the 23s – like a featherbed in comparison! (But much slower and harder work: energy-sapping ‘suspension’!) I wanted ‘smoother’ I got it. Now I pay the price.
Tencon, yes, assuming all things are the same, you are correct.
Tencon: 35s don’t have to be slow – it’s the casing, not the width, that really affects speed. It’s just that wide tires tend to be overbuilt with stiff sidewalls and flatproof belts that sap energy. I’m riding on Pasela 32s and 35s (the non-tourguard ones), I don’t feel like they slow me down and they’re great on bad roads and dirt roads.
Sell the guy the bike he really wants. Then sell him another bike after experience teaches him what kind of bike he really needs.
LBS sell their stock first no matter what you want or need.
Some do business that way, but not all. A couple of years ago I went to the nearest shop to buy a dust sleeve for my cup-and-cone bottom bracket. They told me that such BBs were obsolete and that it wasn’t even possible to order parts for them anymore. However, they would be happy to replace my otherwise-perfect BB with a whole new sealed-cartidge BB.
So I went across town to my favorite shop, where the mechanic pulled out a box with several different types of BB dust sleeves and said, “Take your pick.” I think he charged me $2.00 for the one I needed. (Oh, and as for not being able to order them? Harris Cyclery has them online for $1.95 each.)
You can make your own dust sleve for cup-and-cone bottom brackets, using an aluminum beverage can and a pair of scissors. Cut the sidewall of the can into a round strip just able to cover the non-threaded space inside the BB shell. Use the container of a beverage you enjoy, for extra bike karma.
No i did not think of this myself, read it 25 yrs ago in a bike repair book. It’s worked well for me the times I’ve used the technique!
Thistle, buy the shop!!!!! (or Yehuda’s share….)
Speaking of partners…not seeing Brian’s name on this page.
Yehuda (as far as I have understood his history) once had quite some money. But then he ‘sold his last shirt’ (German saying) to buy the Kickstand AND he does housesitting for extra money or sleeps in the Kikstand.
So his share of the shop did cost everything he had AND don’t pay him a place of his own.
The Kickstand don’t make enough money to pay Thistle’s work until now, it won’t be able to pay her enough for her family in the future.
Now, Thistle NEEDS money and does not have some extra to buy the Kickstand.
Not his ‘last shirt’ = his HOUSE!
If it was a ‘mansion’ I guess he has a few dollars left over?
When someone sells his ‘last shirt’ he’s already sold /everything/ else he ever had, including his house.
If Yehuda had ‘a few dollars left over’ he would not do housesitting – and he would be able to rent a place of his own instead of sleeping in the Kickstand.
Yeah, now there’s a plan. What with not getting paid in the first place, plus the only breadwinner in her family losing his job, I’m sure there’s all kinds of spare cash* lying around.
*Yeah, yeah, I know. Monopoly money. Still…
Now just wait til Thistle discovers she’s pregnant again….
When did she have the time?
More to the point, who’s the father?
I can see both sides of this one. On the one hand, if Yehuda sells the guy a bike he doesn’t really want, he probably won’t ride it much and it’ll spend most of its time in the garage. On the other hand, if the guy gets a bike that isn’t suitable for his needs, he’ll soon become frustrated and again, he won’t want to ride it. The customer needs to understand the reasons for the recommended bike and why it will be more enjoyable for him to ride it. Yehuda is wise to get Thistle to explain it rather than just insisting, “Our infallible questionnaire knows better than you, so just shut up and do what it tells you.”
I’m with Widsith on this one. You have to kind of lead the customer down the path of “why” a certain product is the one recommended…but a really good salesperson will do some serious listening as well…
I see both sides of this one, too. The customer is a fairly young guy, and obviously doesn’t know what he needs. He doesn’t know what he wants, either, but he does know what he *doesn’t* want. You lose a sale when you don’t listen. Feel free to suggest all the things you think will make his riding better, but let him have what he wants: it’s still a toy in his eyes, and you’ll make no headway with logic as long as that’s where his head is.
My first bike purchase was a used steel Fuji. Great bike, but I didn’t think it was what I needed at the time. Bought a Trek 850 rigid (and refused to buy until they got the color I liked), and did everything with it: single-track, double-track, but it was mostly my primary form of transportation. Got back to the Fuji later, but only because I was able to enjoy riding what I wanted, and then learn what I wanted and needed.
The fat guy’s been unemployed for only 12hrs, why cant he bounce back and find something else quick. Someone with ressources does not stay in that situation very long.
And about Thistle, if not paid by the KS, she’s pretty much in the same situation a M.T, what if the engineering firm does not need her!!!!
lots of of people out there with resources who can’t find work…
Rick – Can we please give Thistle’s husband a name?
Maybe you could have a contest!
I recommend Rick Smith without hesitation for almost anything except for open heart surgery and the genetic cloning of pandas.” Brian Ward
I saw her today at the reception
A glass of wine in her hand
I knew she was gonna meet her connection
At her feet was her footloose man
And I went down to the demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, “We’re gonna vent our frustration
If we don’t we’re gonna blow a 50-amp fuse”
Sing it to me now…
I went down to the Chelsea drugstore
To get your prescription filled
I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy
And man, did he look pretty ill
We decided that we would have a soda
My favorite flavor, cherry red
I sung my song to Mr. Jimmy
Yeah, and he said one word to me, and that was “dead”
I saw her today at the reception
In her glass was a bleeding man
She was practiced at the art of deception
Well I could tell by her blood-stained hands
can’t tell if nobody gets this or whether it’s just too obvious to bother. Or if everyone is maybe fifteen….
We just aren’t going to let you get any satisfaction.
Well, you can’t always get what you want…
There’s nothing to suggest that the her previous employer would take her back if she asked. Look at all the unemployed highly technical people who have been unemployed for years due to the bad economy.
When Thistle did a good job before bekomming pregnant with Fizz and her successor does a lesser job …
It might be, Thistle left a hole in her firm.
She’s left her job not because of quality or low economy but because of pregnancy, so I think her value for her former firm might still exist.
Her husband just got fired (we don’t know the reason jet), so he might have some bad reputation when looking for a new job.
So I think it’s worth a try for Thistle – even when it’s bad for the Kickstand.
Mr. Thistle seems sure her old firm will take her. Perhaps they’ve asked her back and she’s said ‘no’?
We don’t know what line of work Mr. Thistle is in. If he is in a field that would require a strong science-math background, he could probably get a later-entry teaching certificate; most public schools need teachers in scientific subjects. He could work pretty steadily as a sub if nothing else, then he’d be in place if/when a regular position came up.
As for the customer, the LBS I most frequently use is Company Bicycle (http://wvcompanybicycle.com); Adam is great–he has the passion of Yehuda, the technical knowledge of Thistle (BSMET, WVTech), and the business savvy of Joe & Fred. His shop is too small to keep much in stock, but he will interview you and ascertain your needs, then custom order a bike that fits your needs. Anyone coming through Charleston, please go see Adam.
Mmmm, perhaps we don’t know enough about Thistle? Go back to http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=20100904 and note that Mr. asks “Can you call the engineering firm and see if they can give you some hours?”
Perhaps she is a partner in the engineering firm who has voluntarilly been on sabatical to raise Fizz? If it were part of the LLC agreement than she might not get paid anything if she doesn’t perform work. Many LLC’s are set up this way. Mr. never said “ask for your job back” which would infer that she quit or such. Maybe.
Or maybe not… http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=20080812
Have fun riding today,
Way ahead of ya, buddy.
I really hope Thistle stays…
Yehuda is passionate about bicycles—the kind of bikes built by the French Constructeurs in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s: Rene Herse, Alex Singer etc. The philosophy of cycling reflected in Bicycle Quarterly, and bikes in the book: The Golden Age of Handbuilt bicycles. These are Randonneur or Brevet bikes, and the Porteur bikes used to deliver newspapers in Paris in the 30s thru 60s. They are built to be long distance racing bikes, light touring bikes for nature excursions, Also Paris-Brest-Paris. These bikes also make great all-purpose commuter bikes. Steel-framed (preferrably lugged) tires anywhere from 32 to 42 mm, often 650B., light weight components, fenders light like Honjo) low trail geometry with front rack, generator lights etc. These bikes are light, fast, durable, and responsive. Several frame makers currently specialize in these bikes, very high quality. The Kogswell P/R(porteur/randonneur) is a recent tig welded version. Hiroshi Iimura designs great lugged steel framed (japanese made) bikes. Also Belinky and others.
Passionate, yes, but Yehuda rode that Dutch tank of a Van Sweringen and preached the tiresome utiity mantra until they finally got him on a Rapid and he started enjoying cycling because he had a fun bike. French style porteurs and randonneurs are a happy revelation I think are still in his future.
her husband should grab one of those things get a chrome pro series and get on the street and get bag to work,…you dont mope after you lose your job….get to messengering ( assuming this is cleveland) it’s not there’s a concentrated downtown or anything…he would have LONG rts to University Circle, it would do him good, get him some back boen…the term tool comes to mind…
Oh god no, that’s the last thing he should do. I was a messenger, it’s dangerous, everything about it sucks, and you’ve got no time or energy left for life, or for finding a real job. At least McDonalds is safe and pays minimum wage.
if the guy knows what he wants, why make him take the questionnaire in the first place?
I hope yehuda has a brain fart and realizes that his preaching is wasting his investment. Maybe Sister Sprocket will take him aside and get the point through. the comic would suck without the shop.
He THINKS, he knows. But he says, “I need a bike to do X, Y, and Z. I want bike A.” If bike A is not suitable for X, Y, and Z, then he doesn’t really know what he wants. Someone needs to explain why bike A is not suitable for his needs. That’s where Thistle comes in.
Maybe Thistle and hubby could get a loan and BUY the Kickstand, employ current staff and run it better- her way with no lip from Yehuda! Week-by-week, Day-by-day she starts to ‘get’ Yehuda’s outlooks and markets a new bike along a hybrid concept of utility-bike, sports style?
People with good steady income and good credit ratings are having trouble getting loans these days. Ain’t no bank gonna hand out money* to the Thistle family, the shape they’re in.
Not even Monopoly money, even.
Mongo, I think you are an educated man. Therefore, you surely know better than to use ‘ain’t’. Confucius said, “To know the right and not to do it is the greatest treason.”
And a commercial bank might not grant such a loan, but a credit union might. Credit unions are not-for-profit financial service cooperatives, hence they are a little more flexible than for-profit banks.
Most people would consider Mark Twain and Charles Dickens to be educated men, yet they used “ain’t” in their writings. They did so to achieve particular literary effects. I suspect Mongo uses it for the same reason.
A West Virginia hillbilly trying to school me on grammar-Now ain’t THAT some shit?
Oh yeah-and don’t patronize me, Hillbilly. It ain’t nice.
He’s definitely patronizing you. That stuff about “educated” is definitely a ding (and an insult.)
Just wait til Thistle finds out she is pregnant!
Been there. Done that. See above.
ohhhhhhhhhhhh recumbents