Urban Bomber: that cyclotoon is SO true! Riding a bicycle is like walking your dog: you simply regard others as instant friends regardless of the kind of dog/bike.
A showdown with the Mayor is coming! GO YEHUDA! And this bureaucrat is probably the kind that will tout how “European” an area of town is where it hasn’t been designed to be openly hostile to foot traffic….
Easy Bomber…Lot’s of people that are “conservative” are cyclists (and for that matter “open” minded). School teachers and administrators generally have the most “liberal” worldview you’ll encounter, but a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat regardless.
OK,
I am now going back on my projection of a love interest for Yehuda. Move from Thistle to the new suit. Since he needs to work with her to get the bike bus system running – it is just a start in geting her converted – and lots of time together…
My new projection!
Oh boy, the scofflaw cyclist argument… I’m getting a little tired of hearing about “those darn cyclists who run stop signs and think they can do whatever they want”. Sure there are a lot of people who don’t know the rules of the road and ride anyway they <i>think</i> is safe but that is our own fault- we’ve made streets built for car drivers and not cyclists or walkers AND we don’t have an education system where people learn how to drive their bikes…. hmm maybe they will implement some BikeEd at this school?!
I meant of no political stance when saying conservative, but that of the definition: Opposing of change.
I also find it kinda funny that everybody forgets, or just doesn’t know, that roads were first paved because of a cyclist group. Drivers take for granted what cyclists have done for them to make their lives easier, and all we get in return is them making ours that more difficult.
Shane- a stop sign is a stop sign…you can’t tell me an adult riding a bike doesn’t know they have to stop there regardless of what education they’ve had. You can’t blame infrastructure for stupid/inconsiderate cyclists.
Stop signs are an interesting entity when you’re on a bike… Stopping unnecessarily on a bike results in a greater inconvenience and penalty than having to stop a car, and think of how annoying it is to stop your car when you’re trying to get somewhere.
The thing is, you are usually in greater touch with your surroundings when you’re on a bike, and you can hear traffic, too. I rarely stop at stop signs unless there’s something coming. I always, though, slow down enough that I can stop in about two feet if need be, which is still reasonably rolling. At a busy four-way, I stop behind the last car and wait my turn.
Cyclists that roll past stopped traffic and pull up beside the first car are not only breaking the law, they are being really annoying. Quite likely that traffic they just passed had to pass them, probably with some difficulty. Now they have to do it again. I have also seen cyclists whip right through busy 4-ways without stopping, looking, or yielding in any way. What they are thinking? Who knows, but the drivers are surely thinking: $@#$@ bike… $#$%$6 a-hole!
I also run reds when there is no traffic to trip the sensor, and there is NOTHING coming. I’ve got better things to do with my time than sit at a light waiting for traffic to come along and trip the light. Le sigh.
@ Chris San Diego:
Can we blame the cops that say it’s ok? I’ve had an SDPD officer tell me that a lot of them don’t care if a cyclist treats a stop like a yield.
@ Micro: I beg to differ. I will ride to the front of traffic at a light every time for three good reasons. First, visibility. I want my presence on the road to be known. It’s the safest thing I can do for myself. I ride in a manner that allows motorists to pass, and generally not on streets so busy that it would cause traffic problems. I may reconsider on congested routes. Two, traffic lights don’t see me and if I line up in the back, it’s likely I’m running a yellow or red by the time I get up there. The third reason is a behavioral observation: opposing traffic turning left does not yield to cyclists – maybe due to our invisibility behind other cars or trucks. Regardless, I go to the front. And encourage others to do so as well (but NEVER on the right side of a vehicle that has the potential to turn that way).
In the UK we have ASL’s (Advanced Stop Lanes) These comprise of a Cycle track on the Left and a huge box infront of the traffic. This enables cyclists to get in front of the traffic at lights and enables them to position to turn right (yep you guys are back to front).
Useful in a lot of circumstances but exceptionally dangerous the rest of the time.
Half of the cycling deaths in london are caused by HGVs turning left and not seeing the cyclist. I never go there if theres a large vehicle.
Interestingly the death rate among female cyclists was higher than male cyclists, as females were less likely to run red lights and thus exposed themselves to this issue.
ASLs are all over the place, and if you are inexperienced as a cyclist, you may see them as safe to use, “because they’re there for you”
I just had to comment: My girlfriend can’t stand it when I call other cyclists out for breaking the rules of the road. I continue to do it, however, because when someone else breaks a law or a common courtesy on a bicycle, I’m the one (who actually follows the rules) who gets blamed in the future.
So when I stop for a stop sign, people don’t know what to do, and try to wave me through, holding up traffic. When I stop at a red light, people get confused, because there are idiots riding on the sidewalk who decide to blow through. When I’m just riding down the street, people won’t pass me because they think I’m going to dart out in front of them or something.
It’s not about following the rules for the sake of rules, it’s about being predictable to everyone, motorist and cyclist alike. Since the traffic laws are the common thread, those are the rules that should be followed in order to exist harmoniously.
(P.S. I’m getting much better at trackstands and explosive power by stopping at stop signs than you are by blowing through them.)
Last time we saw the councilman, he left the door open to work with Yehuda on the bike lanes, remember the red tape and scissors? I’m not reading his tone as nearly as antagonistic as that of the other suit in the last couple strips. I’m looking forward to seeing where this storyline goes.
+1 Mirco and MBK. Perversely, being “predictable” by following the rules of the road is usually one of the last things that motorists “predict” bicyclists will do. But I still think that when they see you doing it, they “get it” sooner than they would if you are just making up your own rules. IMO, when you follow the same rules as everyone else, they understand and can react to your actions sooner and better. And without as much acrimony.
My rule of thumb for stop lights is that I stop and wait in line if it appears I’ll get through on the next green. Otherwise I’ll usually let myself *carefully* filter up on the right, but then cut in line when I do get within that distance, which is usually pretty easy to do at the point that the cars are slowing down again and traveling about the same speed as me. I guess it’s still a little rude, but I think it’s a good compromise, and it works well in practice. I’m almost always given a place, and if one car doesn’t, the next will. Maybe it’s because which of those motorists wouldn’t do the same if they could?
The waving through is indeed a problem, and one I have no single answer to. In my experience, sometimes you just have to go ahead, if it’s safe, or else get into a “waving war” that just prolongs the agony. But watch out at multilane roads where the waver isn’t thinking about the traffic in the other lanes!
Interesting comments about ASL’s, dis. I have grave misgivings about those because I’ve never gotten a good answer to what happens if you want to make a left turn and the light turns green just as you are approaching the box. It’s too late to move left, and dangerous to just stop in the bike lane.
It’s interesting that many people (cyclists AND drivers) believe they can pick and choose which rules of the road to follow and how to follow them (like whether/how you stop at stop signs) while the same behavior in others elicits everything from annoyance to rage.
I try to ride in a manner that follows the rules of the road and elicits the least annoyance from drivers, a.k.a. the “Try not to piss anyone off” rule. Anything else just leads to conflict, which very, very rarely leads to anything productive.
As for rageahol’s comment: I see a guy ride by my house every morning. My street T’s into a cross street which is moderately well-traveled in the morning by commuters. The rider always blows through the stop sign as he turns left onto the cross street. Now, this is a fairly obscured corner, so he can’t see what’s coming until he’s right at the corner, but he doesn’t even slow down to make the turn. I’m sure he thinks, “I’ll hear any cars coming.” I’m sure he thinks “I’m not hurting anyone.” But if he gets hit by someone driving a nice, quiet hybrid car (lot of those in my neighborhood), then he just ruined several lives — his own, his family’s, the driver’s and the driver’s family. He probably saves a good 10 seconds off his commute by not stopping, but he’s accumulating some iffy karma, and payback is a b*tch. And, if you think this is random speculation, we had a neighbor kid get hit by a car at that very same intersection a few years back when she chased a ball into the street. I wouldn’t want to be her, her parents, or the driver. Nobody wins in that scenario.
As a teacher and parent I am really enjoying this storyline. Somebody the other day mentioned Safe Routes to School, but and even better project is the FREIKERS, which is finally expanding beyond Boulder and CO, with some help from Trek.
Well, after reading these comments, I think I know why drivers are hassling me more these days. Follow the rules gang. Like drivers that save a few seconds waiting to pass us properly, coming to a stop at a sign or waiting for a light to change isn’t going to make or break your commute, unless you too didn’t plan ahead to get an appropriate state. The rest of us shouldn’t have to pay the price for your recklessness. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing how some youngster is the first person in history to come up with safer and more effective riding habits than required by law.
The thing that bugs me the most about stop signs is the large number of signs that are misused as traffic calming devices. This actually contributes to cyclists blowing stop signs, as so many are no danger to blow through. Also as most cyclists ride at half the speed limit or less our need to be “calmed” is negligible, but the impact against us is way out of proportion. In other words cyclists get “calmed” way out of proportion to our initial speed, anywhere from 20% to as much as 40%, when we don’t speed in the first place.
You “follow the rules” folks do realize that the “rules” vary from place to place. For instance Idaho has a very different set of rules for cyclists at stops. Oregon has a very different set of rules for bike lanes, Maryland has a different set of rules for roads over 50MPH; much of the western states allow cyclists on the Interstates… Just a few examples.
@Urban Bomber
I just want to say that if the definition of conservative is “apposed to change” then the definition of liberal is “for change no matter what.”
We conservatives aren’t apposed to change, we just don’t blindly accept it like most liberals. I prefer to use my head when it comes to making a decision rather than just accept it because it’s “different”
per comments Mirco & Redwing
The stop light/sign thing is tricky. I usually go right up to the light or sign because there is no one in *my* lane, the bike lane. Then cars can go forward in their lane and me in mine at the same time. I usually do this when making a left too. Get in the left turn lane on the far right side. Then turn along side traffic. Assuming there’s enough room. If not, I’ll get in the car lane and wait my turn. I’m always bummed though when there is enough room for cars to turn in their lane and they don’t because they are afraid to pass me. They effectively made me butt in line! I wouldn’t have ridden up next to them if there wasn’t enough room for both of us. *sigh* oh well. Guess I should be grateful that they are cautious.
@fireraisr
I was going to comment on definitions earlier, but let it go since this is neither a political nor English usage blog.
But now that you have, I’d just like to second your comment in that the definition of conservative is definitely not “opposed to change.” Just as the definition of “liberal” is not “progressive” (even though “liberals” prefer that monikor). Not sure why us conservatives haven’t come up with a different, more marketable name for our worldview. Guess we’re just not embarrassed by the term “conservative”…..
mirco, way back earlier today you mentioned some poor vehicle passing “with some difficulty.” so what? the LAST thing i’m concerned about is whether the vehicle passing me has a hassle while passing me.
why? i want to make riding a bicycle appear joyous and easy.
and about other cyclists? i’m a bicyclist, first and foremost, and i fit into a number of sub-classifications of “type of cyclist.” primarily, i’m a racer, but i find that regardless of how friendly i am to other cyclists–and i AM friendly to other riders, because 1] it’s my nature, 2] i want to encourage friendliness among all cyclists, and 3] they MIGHT just be listeners of my radio show, and i want to NOT piss of my audience–BUT having said that, i have found that other cyclists tend to resent “racers” as being reckless, careless and dangerous. truth be told [and it IS the truth, folks], the overwhelming majority of bike racers are much better bike handlers than the typical tourist, commuter, trail rider, and casual first-time triathlete.
now, that’s not saying that the overwhelming majority of racers aren’t idiots–some of them are COMPLETE idiots when it comes to courtesy and observance to surroundings when riding.
so if you ARE a friendly bicyclist, please be friendly to all of us. especially the guy with the bushy mustache, goattee and ponytail; he just might mention you on the radio!
Why do you persist that my use of a common word to be solely political? Why is it so hard to understand that outside of the political arena, the word “conservative” actually means opposing change? Just look at the root, conserve, or look at conservation. To keep the same, to not change, it’s as simple as that. I have a strong belief in not talking politics or religion in a crowd of unknowns, for you never know who you’re going to offend, so why would I change that now? I’m sorry that you’re close minded and can’t see past political views.
I have to give my two cents on how to ride with traffic, because I think how you ride effects me, and how I ride effects you. I think we have to follow the rules, and you have to know the rules in your area, just like the drivers do. Bikes fall into a strange category that is somewhere between a pedestrian and a motor vehicle. Because of that I follow whichever mode of transport I most closely resemble. In other words, if I am on the sidewalk, going slow takin
I think you chaps in the colonies call them 18 wheelers.
HEH! Well, I call ‘em “Trucks” you might call them “Lorries” or Articulated Lorries.
As to “conservative” I am definitely conservative. As in the full meaning of the word, I conserve. I conserve nature if I can, I conserve my money if I can, and resources too. After all, it is MY money! I ride a bike because I am CHEAP! Also, I really do not relish the thought of sending money to countries that are trying to destroy ours and our way of life. I don’t begrudge them their beliefs, I just don’t believe in funding them!
Anyway, I have run across many A#%holes in life in the political stripe, call me Cynical, but It appears to me that MOST (if not all!) politicians are in it for their own self aggrandizement and power hunger. As George Carlin said, “That is the name of this game, “Dig ME!” ” Most are worried about the next election. wouldn’t it be refreshing if some one somewhere actually ran for office because they wanted to make the country a BETTER PLACE to live instead of promoting a political agenda!
(Sorry, I am not a political person, I dislike politics because I think that an honest politician is about as common as a unicorn!
i’m all for following the rules where appropriate. i am constantly bugged by riders with headphones or earbuds, or the “bike salmon” as bikesnobYNC has dubbed them – riders using a bike lane, but riding the wrong direction. i even yell at them from time to time, because they are DIRECTLY endangering me. i should also note that i participate in programs designed to increase safety-conscious riding as well, so it’s not like i’m just being contrarian.
what i’m saying is that blowing red lights and stop signs is the least of our worries as cyclists. far more people are injured or killed by, say, right hooks, than there are by people blowing lights. police here regularly fail to charge motorists with ANYTHING when they hit or kill a cyclist. these and many other concerns should come FIRST because they directly affect safety in larger numbers.
people who chide others for blowing a stop sign or light usually fail to realize this, and have an inordinate interest in sticking their nose in other people’s business.
conservative- adj. holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
The dictionary is your friend, if you’re going to debate word use, just look it up!
Also, I find it to be much more polite to cars to wait in line with cars at stop signs/ stop lights. Remember in kindergarten, did you ever enjoy or appreciate it when another kid cut you in line? Same thing goes for traffic, you may end up being faced with some righteous indignation for your hurry.
alright, here goes: My philosophy of riding is: My safety comes first. I do everything I can to make sure that I don’t put myself into a stupid, dangerous situation. That said, Second comes maintaining momentum, the holy grail of that is the no-touch commute, of which I am still a virgin.
So now:
@ Kim: my concern for the poor passing motorist is not his convenience, but minimizing anti-cyclist rage. When you are a vehicle travelling approximately half as fast as everyone else, you need to be considerate of others, especially considering you are as vulnerable as you are, and even more so considering that drivers have a habit of flying off the handle much more easily than the same person in any other situation.
Which relates to:
@ Nuke: by that same logic, you might feel safer riding against traffic, because you can see what’s coming better.
For all those who ride past stopped traffic that just passed you, do any of you drive cars? it helps to understand what the other end feels like, and if you feel that cyclists don’t hold you up much, then you probably pass the door zone cyclists, and may be such yourselves. Get doored once, and you’ll take the lane forever. Assuming you make it out of the hospital.
@ MBK: YES! One of my biggest pet peeves with drivers are the ones that are hyper-aware of cyclists, and stop when you’re trying to cross a road, or turn, or whatever. They will endanger themselves, break the law, heedless of the other three lanes of traffic streaming by, horns blaring, waiting for you to go. I just sit there, looking at them, shaking my head, gesturing at my stop sign and the lack of theirs, and the open road ahead of them. But sometimes I can’t be bothered, and just go, shaking my head.
@ CO Rider….. Dude. We should go for a ride someday. We seem to be doppelgangers.
And yes, I will wait my turns at the light if I end up a couple cycles back. Cursing my decision the whole time, usually choking on exhaust, looking forlornly at the sidewalk, so free and clear of people walking on it…. But usually it works out best.
And no, I never ride in the door zone. Take the lane and makem wait. Also applies to too-narrow single lane roads w/curbs on both sides.
rageahol: “MBK: my impression is that people who “call out” others for breaking the rules when that behavior isnt endangering anybody are, well, douchenozzles.”
Hey, it’s the truth. This is one of the things I struggle with every day I’m on the bike.
I’d much rather be able to take the time to explain to another person my motivation–that when either of us is unpredictable, it hurts cyclists as a whole–but there usually isn’t time for it. So usually I just point out the obvious, in as nonoffensive tone as I can: “you’re riding on the wrong side of the road,” “there was a stop sign there,” etc.
I ride with a local group of bike advocates/riders, all very “safety” concious…
They require helmets, all wear bright colors, flashy lights blah blah blah… and then throw in some of the dangerous riding techniques while berating other riders on the road.
Call some commuter out for not having a helmet while riding on a sidewalk or having just rolled through a stop sign… aurgh.
In general most of them don’t take enough lane to ride safely when on busy streets, some ride far enough right that storm grates eat a few of them. I’ve been working on getting grates repaired, but I never even noticed them until a rider went down on one during a group ride. I can’t stand seeing people ride that close to a curb, in the glass and the rest of the debris.
Anyways, had a guy go completely off in a chat room because I said I understood treating stop signs as a yield sign. And how I recognized that car drivers automatically turn that into “All cyclists just blow right through red lights without looking!”.
I try to drive like a car so I get treated like a car. I take enough lane so that I get the room I need. I take the lane (completely if going straight) at intersections and actually avoid routes that have uncontrolled ones. I used to ride up on the right (USA) but have pretty much eliminated that since it puts us in the danger zone for a right hook and does agitate drivers that have to pass us over and over which increases the road rage potential. I avoid like the plague mid-block crossings… where there is a traffic light 100 yards away but your going to cross at a side street over a major arterial (4-5 lanes), something that for some reason our club rides do a ridiculous amount of the time, I believe so that they spend less time on ‘busy’ streets. I’d rather be on the busy street than playing frogger.
This morning I did a pedestrian/bike count, I found it interesting that in a city with an ordinance requiring bike helmets only 1/3rd of the cyclists I counted were wearing one. Helmet war anyone?
If everyone operated like that, traffic would be much safer (and faster).
I hate jugheaded bureaucrats like these. So hidebound to their own rules that they can’t see good in other’s thinking.
Let me guess. She drives a blue car?
Well, I’ve seen why some public officials hold to rules…they get a delugue of half-thought out requests every day.
Everybody’s got to love their local close minded conservative right?
I fully agree with Thomas and Sirrus Rider!
Just imagine how happy the world would be… reminds me of a cyclotoon.
http://www.nealskorpen.com/cyc002.html
Urban Bomber: that cyclotoon is SO true! Riding a bicycle is like walking your dog: you simply regard others as instant friends regardless of the kind of dog/bike.
A showdown with the Mayor is coming! GO YEHUDA! And this bureaucrat is probably the kind that will tout how “European” an area of town is where it hasn’t been designed to be openly hostile to foot traffic….
Easy Bomber…Lot’s of people that are “conservative” are cyclists (and for that matter “open” minded). School teachers and administrators generally have the most “liberal” worldview you’ll encounter, but a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat regardless.
Yeah, imagine if people in cars ignored rules that didn’t suit motorists… oh, wait… nevermind.
Mark the Lake took the words right out of mouth. Thanks.
OK,
I am now going back on my projection of a love interest for Yehuda. Move from Thistle to the new suit. Since he needs to work with her to get the bike bus system running – it is just a start in geting her converted – and lots of time together…
My new projection!
Oh boy, the scofflaw cyclist argument… I’m getting a little tired of hearing about “those darn cyclists who run stop signs and think they can do whatever they want”. Sure there are a lot of people who don’t know the rules of the road and ride anyway they <i>think</i> is safe but that is our own fault- we’ve made streets built for car drivers and not cyclists or walkers AND we don’t have an education system where people learn how to drive their bikes…. hmm maybe they will implement some BikeEd at this school?!
@ Mark
I meant of no political stance when saying conservative, but that of the definition: Opposing of change.
I also find it kinda funny that everybody forgets, or just doesn’t know, that roads were first paved because of a cyclist group. Drivers take for granted what cyclists have done for them to make their lives easier, and all we get in return is them making ours that more difficult.
Shane- a stop sign is a stop sign…you can’t tell me an adult riding a bike doesn’t know they have to stop there regardless of what education they’ve had. You can’t blame infrastructure for stupid/inconsiderate cyclists.
Correction: First asphalted road in America
Thank you, Chris SD.
I have a feeling the mayor will be an asset and decent fellow.
Stop signs are an interesting entity when you’re on a bike… Stopping unnecessarily on a bike results in a greater inconvenience and penalty than having to stop a car, and think of how annoying it is to stop your car when you’re trying to get somewhere.
The thing is, you are usually in greater touch with your surroundings when you’re on a bike, and you can hear traffic, too. I rarely stop at stop signs unless there’s something coming. I always, though, slow down enough that I can stop in about two feet if need be, which is still reasonably rolling. At a busy four-way, I stop behind the last car and wait my turn.
Cyclists that roll past stopped traffic and pull up beside the first car are not only breaking the law, they are being really annoying. Quite likely that traffic they just passed had to pass them, probably with some difficulty. Now they have to do it again. I have also seen cyclists whip right through busy 4-ways without stopping, looking, or yielding in any way. What they are thinking? Who knows, but the drivers are surely thinking: $@#$@ bike… $#$%$6 a-hole!
I also run reds when there is no traffic to trip the sensor, and there is NOTHING coming. I’ve got better things to do with my time than sit at a light waiting for traffic to come along and trip the light. Le sigh.
@ Chris San Diego:
Can we blame the cops that say it’s ok? I’ve had an SDPD officer tell me that a lot of them don’t care if a cyclist treats a stop like a yield.
@ Micro: I beg to differ. I will ride to the front of traffic at a light every time for three good reasons. First, visibility. I want my presence on the road to be known. It’s the safest thing I can do for myself. I ride in a manner that allows motorists to pass, and generally not on streets so busy that it would cause traffic problems. I may reconsider on congested routes. Two, traffic lights don’t see me and if I line up in the back, it’s likely I’m running a yellow or red by the time I get up there. The third reason is a behavioral observation: opposing traffic turning left does not yield to cyclists – maybe due to our invisibility behind other cars or trucks. Regardless, I go to the front. And encourage others to do so as well (but NEVER on the right side of a vehicle that has the potential to turn that way).
@ Nuke
Same here for the same reasons. Sometimes a more agressive riding style is actually defensive in nature.
In the UK we have ASL’s (Advanced Stop Lanes) These comprise of a Cycle track on the Left and a huge box infront of the traffic. This enables cyclists to get in front of the traffic at lights and enables them to position to turn right (yep you guys are back to front).
Useful in a lot of circumstances but exceptionally dangerous the rest of the time.
Half of the cycling deaths in london are caused by HGVs turning left and not seeing the cyclist. I never go there if theres a large vehicle.
Interestingly the death rate among female cyclists was higher than male cyclists, as females were less likely to run red lights and thus exposed themselves to this issue.
ASLs are all over the place, and if you are inexperienced as a cyclist, you may see them as safe to use, “because they’re there for you”
I just had to comment: My girlfriend can’t stand it when I call other cyclists out for breaking the rules of the road. I continue to do it, however, because when someone else breaks a law or a common courtesy on a bicycle, I’m the one (who actually follows the rules) who gets blamed in the future.
So when I stop for a stop sign, people don’t know what to do, and try to wave me through, holding up traffic. When I stop at a red light, people get confused, because there are idiots riding on the sidewalk who decide to blow through. When I’m just riding down the street, people won’t pass me because they think I’m going to dart out in front of them or something.
It’s not about following the rules for the sake of rules, it’s about being predictable to everyone, motorist and cyclist alike. Since the traffic laws are the common thread, those are the rules that should be followed in order to exist harmoniously.
(P.S. I’m getting much better at trackstands and explosive power by stopping at stop signs than you are by blowing through them.)
MBK: my impression is that people who “call out” others for breaking the rules when that behavior isnt endangering anybody are, well, douchenozzles.
Back to the cartoon at hand-
Last time we saw the councilman, he left the door open to work with Yehuda on the bike lanes, remember the red tape and scissors? I’m not reading his tone as nearly as antagonistic as that of the other suit in the last couple strips. I’m looking forward to seeing where this storyline goes.
+1 Mirco and MBK. Perversely, being “predictable” by following the rules of the road is usually one of the last things that motorists “predict” bicyclists will do. But I still think that when they see you doing it, they “get it” sooner than they would if you are just making up your own rules. IMO, when you follow the same rules as everyone else, they understand and can react to your actions sooner and better. And without as much acrimony.
My rule of thumb for stop lights is that I stop and wait in line if it appears I’ll get through on the next green. Otherwise I’ll usually let myself *carefully* filter up on the right, but then cut in line when I do get within that distance, which is usually pretty easy to do at the point that the cars are slowing down again and traveling about the same speed as me. I guess it’s still a little rude, but I think it’s a good compromise, and it works well in practice. I’m almost always given a place, and if one car doesn’t, the next will. Maybe it’s because which of those motorists wouldn’t do the same if they could?
The waving through is indeed a problem, and one I have no single answer to. In my experience, sometimes you just have to go ahead, if it’s safe, or else get into a “waving war” that just prolongs the agony. But watch out at multilane roads where the waver isn’t thinking about the traffic in the other lanes!
Interesting comments about ASL’s, dis. I have grave misgivings about those because I’ve never gotten a good answer to what happens if you want to make a left turn and the light turns green just as you are approaching the box. It’s too late to move left, and dangerous to just stop in the bike lane.
But what’s an HGV?
It’s interesting that many people (cyclists AND drivers) believe they can pick and choose which rules of the road to follow and how to follow them (like whether/how you stop at stop signs) while the same behavior in others elicits everything from annoyance to rage.
I try to ride in a manner that follows the rules of the road and elicits the least annoyance from drivers, a.k.a. the “Try not to piss anyone off” rule. Anything else just leads to conflict, which very, very rarely leads to anything productive.
As for rageahol’s comment: I see a guy ride by my house every morning. My street T’s into a cross street which is moderately well-traveled in the morning by commuters. The rider always blows through the stop sign as he turns left onto the cross street. Now, this is a fairly obscured corner, so he can’t see what’s coming until he’s right at the corner, but he doesn’t even slow down to make the turn. I’m sure he thinks, “I’ll hear any cars coming.” I’m sure he thinks “I’m not hurting anyone.” But if he gets hit by someone driving a nice, quiet hybrid car (lot of those in my neighborhood), then he just ruined several lives — his own, his family’s, the driver’s and the driver’s family. He probably saves a good 10 seconds off his commute by not stopping, but he’s accumulating some iffy karma, and payback is a b*tch. And, if you think this is random speculation, we had a neighbor kid get hit by a car at that very same intersection a few years back when she chased a ball into the street. I wouldn’t want to be her, her parents, or the driver. Nobody wins in that scenario.
As a teacher and parent I am really enjoying this storyline. Somebody the other day mentioned Safe Routes to School, but and even better project is the FREIKERS, which is finally expanding beyond Boulder and CO, with some help from Trek.
Check out http://www.Freiker.org
Well, after reading these comments, I think I know why drivers are hassling me more these days. Follow the rules gang. Like drivers that save a few seconds waiting to pass us properly, coming to a stop at a sign or waiting for a light to change isn’t going to make or break your commute, unless you too didn’t plan ahead to get an appropriate state. The rest of us shouldn’t have to pay the price for your recklessness. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing how some youngster is the first person in history to come up with safer and more effective riding habits than required by law.
The thing that bugs me the most about stop signs is the large number of signs that are misused as traffic calming devices. This actually contributes to cyclists blowing stop signs, as so many are no danger to blow through. Also as most cyclists ride at half the speed limit or less our need to be “calmed” is negligible, but the impact against us is way out of proportion. In other words cyclists get “calmed” way out of proportion to our initial speed, anywhere from 20% to as much as 40%, when we don’t speed in the first place.
You “follow the rules” folks do realize that the “rules” vary from place to place. For instance Idaho has a very different set of rules for cyclists at stops. Oregon has a very different set of rules for bike lanes, Maryland has a different set of rules for roads over 50MPH; much of the western states allow cyclists on the Interstates… Just a few examples.
@Urban Bomber
I just want to say that if the definition of conservative is “apposed to change” then the definition of liberal is “for change no matter what.”
We conservatives aren’t apposed to change, we just don’t blindly accept it like most liberals. I prefer to use my head when it comes to making a decision rather than just accept it because it’s “different”
RAAAAAAGE
@ JohnB
HGV = Heavy Goods Vehicle
I think you chaps in the colonies call them 18 wheelers.
per comments Mirco & Redwing
The stop light/sign thing is tricky. I usually go right up to the light or sign because there is no one in *my* lane, the bike lane. Then cars can go forward in their lane and me in mine at the same time. I usually do this when making a left too. Get in the left turn lane on the far right side. Then turn along side traffic. Assuming there’s enough room. If not, I’ll get in the car lane and wait my turn. I’m always bummed though when there is enough room for cars to turn in their lane and they don’t because they are afraid to pass me. They effectively made me butt in line! I wouldn’t have ridden up next to them if there wasn’t enough room for both of us. *sigh* oh well. Guess I should be grateful that they are cautious.
@fireraisr
I was going to comment on definitions earlier, but let it go since this is neither a political nor English usage blog.
But now that you have, I’d just like to second your comment in that the definition of conservative is definitely not “opposed to change.” Just as the definition of “liberal” is not “progressive” (even though “liberals” prefer that monikor). Not sure why us conservatives haven’t come up with a different, more marketable name for our worldview. Guess we’re just not embarrassed by the term “conservative”…..
mirco, way back earlier today you mentioned some poor vehicle passing “with some difficulty.” so what? the LAST thing i’m concerned about is whether the vehicle passing me has a hassle while passing me.
why? i want to make riding a bicycle appear joyous and easy.
and about other cyclists? i’m a bicyclist, first and foremost, and i fit into a number of sub-classifications of “type of cyclist.” primarily, i’m a racer, but i find that regardless of how friendly i am to other cyclists–and i AM friendly to other riders, because 1] it’s my nature, 2] i want to encourage friendliness among all cyclists, and 3] they MIGHT just be listeners of my radio show, and i want to NOT piss of my audience–BUT having said that, i have found that other cyclists tend to resent “racers” as being reckless, careless and dangerous. truth be told [and it IS the truth, folks], the overwhelming majority of bike racers are much better bike handlers than the typical tourist, commuter, trail rider, and casual first-time triathlete.
now, that’s not saying that the overwhelming majority of racers aren’t idiots–some of them are COMPLETE idiots when it comes to courtesy and observance to surroundings when riding.
so if you ARE a friendly bicyclist, please be friendly to all of us. especially the guy with the bushy mustache, goattee and ponytail; he just might mention you on the radio!
@ Fireraiser and Mark
Why do you persist that my use of a common word to be solely political? Why is it so hard to understand that outside of the political arena, the word “conservative” actually means opposing change? Just look at the root, conserve, or look at conservation. To keep the same, to not change, it’s as simple as that. I have a strong belief in not talking politics or religion in a crowd of unknowns, for you never know who you’re going to offend, so why would I change that now? I’m sorry that you’re close minded and can’t see past political views.
I have to give my two cents on how to ride with traffic, because I think how you ride effects me, and how I ride effects you. I think we have to follow the rules, and you have to know the rules in your area, just like the drivers do. Bikes fall into a strange category that is somewhere between a pedestrian and a motor vehicle. Because of that I follow whichever mode of transport I most closely resemble. In other words, if I am on the sidewalk, going slow takin
*rage*
I think you chaps in the colonies call them 18 wheelers.
HEH! Well, I call ‘em “Trucks” you might call them “Lorries” or Articulated Lorries.
As to “conservative” I am definitely conservative. As in the full meaning of the word, I conserve. I conserve nature if I can, I conserve my money if I can, and resources too. After all, it is MY money! I ride a bike because I am CHEAP! Also, I really do not relish the thought of sending money to countries that are trying to destroy ours and our way of life. I don’t begrudge them their beliefs, I just don’t believe in funding them!
Anyway, I have run across many A#%holes in life in the political stripe, call me Cynical, but It appears to me that MOST (if not all!) politicians are in it for their own self aggrandizement and power hunger. As George Carlin said, “That is the name of this game, “Dig ME!” ” Most are worried about the next election. wouldn’t it be refreshing if some one somewhere actually ran for office because they wanted to make the country a BETTER PLACE to live instead of promoting a political agenda!
(Sorry, I am not a political person, I dislike politics because I think that an honest politician is about as common as a unicorn!
mark
i’m all for following the rules where appropriate. i am constantly bugged by riders with headphones or earbuds, or the “bike salmon” as bikesnobYNC has dubbed them – riders using a bike lane, but riding the wrong direction. i even yell at them from time to time, because they are DIRECTLY endangering me. i should also note that i participate in programs designed to increase safety-conscious riding as well, so it’s not like i’m just being contrarian.
what i’m saying is that blowing red lights and stop signs is the least of our worries as cyclists. far more people are injured or killed by, say, right hooks, than there are by people blowing lights. police here regularly fail to charge motorists with ANYTHING when they hit or kill a cyclist. these and many other concerns should come FIRST because they directly affect safety in larger numbers.
people who chide others for blowing a stop sign or light usually fail to realize this, and have an inordinate interest in sticking their nose in other people’s business.
conservative- adj. holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
The dictionary is your friend, if you’re going to debate word use, just look it up!
Also, I find it to be much more polite to cars to wait in line with cars at stop signs/ stop lights. Remember in kindergarten, did you ever enjoy or appreciate it when another kid cut you in line? Same thing goes for traffic, you may end up being faced with some righteous indignation for your hurry.
and back to the comic at hand………
all of this text
is not bicycle riding
http://roderickdmcclain.blogspot.com
alright, here goes: My philosophy of riding is: My safety comes first. I do everything I can to make sure that I don’t put myself into a stupid, dangerous situation. That said, Second comes maintaining momentum, the holy grail of that is the no-touch commute, of which I am still a virgin.
So now:
@ Kim: my concern for the poor passing motorist is not his convenience, but minimizing anti-cyclist rage. When you are a vehicle travelling approximately half as fast as everyone else, you need to be considerate of others, especially considering you are as vulnerable as you are, and even more so considering that drivers have a habit of flying off the handle much more easily than the same person in any other situation.
Which relates to:
@ Nuke: by that same logic, you might feel safer riding against traffic, because you can see what’s coming better.
For all those who ride past stopped traffic that just passed you, do any of you drive cars? it helps to understand what the other end feels like, and if you feel that cyclists don’t hold you up much, then you probably pass the door zone cyclists, and may be such yourselves. Get doored once, and you’ll take the lane forever. Assuming you make it out of the hospital.
@ MBK: YES! One of my biggest pet peeves with drivers are the ones that are hyper-aware of cyclists, and stop when you’re trying to cross a road, or turn, or whatever. They will endanger themselves, break the law, heedless of the other three lanes of traffic streaming by, horns blaring, waiting for you to go. I just sit there, looking at them, shaking my head, gesturing at my stop sign and the lack of theirs, and the open road ahead of them. But sometimes I can’t be bothered, and just go, shaking my head.
@ CO Rider….. Dude. We should go for a ride someday. We seem to be doppelgangers.
And yes, I will wait my turns at the light if I end up a couple cycles back. Cursing my decision the whole time, usually choking on exhaust, looking forlornly at the sidewalk, so free and clear of people walking on it…. But usually it works out best.
And no, I never ride in the door zone. Take the lane and makem wait. Also applies to too-narrow single lane roads w/curbs on both sides.
K, that’s probably enough for now.
rageahol: “MBK: my impression is that people who “call out” others for breaking the rules when that behavior isnt endangering anybody are, well, douchenozzles.”
Hey, it’s the truth. This is one of the things I struggle with every day I’m on the bike.
I’d much rather be able to take the time to explain to another person my motivation–that when either of us is unpredictable, it hurts cyclists as a whole–but there usually isn’t time for it. So usually I just point out the obvious, in as nonoffensive tone as I can: “you’re riding on the wrong side of the road,” “there was a stop sign there,” etc.
What a bitch! She reminds me of Dolores Umbridge.
I ride with a local group of bike advocates/riders, all very “safety” concious…
They require helmets, all wear bright colors, flashy lights blah blah blah… and then throw in some of the dangerous riding techniques while berating other riders on the road.
Call some commuter out for not having a helmet while riding on a sidewalk or having just rolled through a stop sign… aurgh.
In general most of them don’t take enough lane to ride safely when on busy streets, some ride far enough right that storm grates eat a few of them. I’ve been working on getting grates repaired, but I never even noticed them until a rider went down on one during a group ride. I can’t stand seeing people ride that close to a curb, in the glass and the rest of the debris.
Anyways, had a guy go completely off in a chat room because I said I understood treating stop signs as a yield sign. And how I recognized that car drivers automatically turn that into “All cyclists just blow right through red lights without looking!”.
I try to drive like a car so I get treated like a car. I take enough lane so that I get the room I need. I take the lane (completely if going straight) at intersections and actually avoid routes that have uncontrolled ones. I used to ride up on the right (USA) but have pretty much eliminated that since it puts us in the danger zone for a right hook and does agitate drivers that have to pass us over and over which increases the road rage potential. I avoid like the plague mid-block crossings… where there is a traffic light 100 yards away but your going to cross at a side street over a major arterial (4-5 lanes), something that for some reason our club rides do a ridiculous amount of the time, I believe so that they spend less time on ‘busy’ streets. I’d rather be on the busy street than playing frogger.
This morning I did a pedestrian/bike count, I found it interesting that in a city with an ordinance requiring bike helmets only 1/3rd of the cyclists I counted were wearing one. Helmet war anyone?