David is right on… Try having this conversation at the big box: “How do I adjust the high & low limits on the front deraileur”? – Guranttee it’ll be deer in the head lights….
It seems that Amazon and co are doing most of our shopping these days.
Also, the cost of motoring is starting to have an effect on how people shop.
Online, we can wander the world browsing here and there for what we imagine we need, or even have to get!
To leave the house, drive to the mall, rub shoulders with the ‘great unwashed’ and be exposed to all their ailments puts us at risk of bringing home some illness that we may then pass on to our loved ones etc. On top of which, the stress puts us at risk from a heart complaint and makes us less cheerful…
Enough of this soul-searching, gloom and despondency – that is the end of my Scrooge comments for the day
In short – the internet is replacing the LBS and supplies a wider range of stock for those with enough time to wait for our parts. Regular maintenance will make us aware of stuff that is wearing-out etc and helps us plan our shopping so that we should never be so rushed for a part that we cannot wait for it to be delivered.
On the other hand, a ride to our LBS costs us nothing but time and there is no carbon-footprint associated with it while a delivery truck has a huge carbon footprint…
So our bikes are the way to shop and help the planet – why should we consider anything else?
(He says looking out the window at black-ice and snow – okay on a trike but lethal on a bike!)
Okay – time to start eating my breakfast cereal and playing my guitar – have a good day y’all
I’m still searching for an LBS with a competent mechanic. The last LBS I tried for a tune-up gave my bike back in noticeably worse adjustment than it was in when I took it in. Before that, another shop failed to retighten my stem after overhauling my headset. I see no good reason to pay higher prices to an LBS when I can get better selection, service, and knowledge from the Internet.
Very few local stores (or big box stores for that matter) stock what I want to purchase. So off to the internet I go. I wear clothes in the Large Tall size, stores don’t stock them. I ride vintage IGH bkes in the XL (64cm range) stores don’t stock them nor the parts to repair them. I love ginger Altoids, stores don’t stock them. I shave using an old Rolls Safety Razor, I use Proaso Shaving Products, stores no longer stock it.
I prefer quality items, like leather shoes that can be resoled…want to guess what stores don’t stock? I would love to shop local but all the local stores (except my grocery store) are all big box stores that don’t carry what I want to purchase, most are filled with mediorce to poor quality high profit margin items. So off to the internet I go.
Can’t argue with that. I also tend to look for and want more off the wall items. I do prefer shopping mom-and-pop stores, but they generally don’t have it, and can’t get it. Larger stores can often special-order what I want, prepaid in advance, with a minimum two-week wait. Big box stores look at me like I have lobsters crawling from my ears when I ask for thoe items.
I can order online, get what I want, delivered in 3 – 5 business days, and if it’s broken or wrong, I can normally just send it back.
In some ways it isn’t that different from living in a rural area before the age of cars. Back then the only thing the local generals carried were a few staple necessaries. If you needed anything else or specific, well it was time to pull out the big Sears, and Wards catalogs, often conveniently available at the local Telegraph office / catalog retail seller.
Amazon in many ways is very similar. I think when the small/large specialty businesses work with them, that is a good thing. Places like VeloFred or NiagraCycles have their inventory of potentially more esosteric or hard to find bicycle parts available through Amazon.
Do I buy from the interweb (more choice, less geld) but with things like clothes risk having to send stuff back ‘cos it’s the wrong size / doesn’t fit right / colour isn’t as reproduced on the website etc – or buy from a shop I can visit where I can see what the colour really is and try things on for size and fit? If I buy from the web will there be the real shop alternative next time I need it?
On the web I can find the specific rare / 2nd hand book or music that I want – but I miss out of the serendipitous finds that, until I went into the real shop, I didn’t know existed…
Most people seem to go into the bricks and mortar shop to handle the item (eg cameras, laptops) and then buy it cheaper online – personally, I prefer to research it online and make the final decision – and purchase – in the shop. If it goes wrong I can just take it back without the fuss of packaging and posting.
that’s the fun part of shopping : finding stuff you didn’t knew you wanted.
Webshops fail to deliver that part of the equation. Might as well ask robots to do my shopping and buy in bulk.
Here in Germany it is easier to return stuff purchased on internet. The law sais the the purchaser may return the purchased good within two weeks without being charged (when the good doesn’t show traces of usage).
In the “real” shop it is just goodwill and decision of the merchant to call off the deal. If he won’t, he won’t. Or he doesn’t give back the money but a coupon.
In October I tried to buy a good compact camera – locally. After intensive internet research I had decided for the Sony RX100. Not one of the bigger electronic markets in my region had this camera stored. They could have ordered it – with my guarantee to buy it if they do so. This would have combined the disadvantages of buying locally (go some miles to the shop, pay a higher price, bad returning conditions) and buying from web (can’t touch the device before you paid it, wait for the delivery). Na, thanks.
(The next bigger cities are ~50 km away.)
After my last try with amazon (24h delivery took 3weeks, local store provided same book within less than 24h) I only buy from net if local stores do not offer or can not order.Big Mall just see me once or twice the year. Only because of couriosity
I use to rent flats in places, where everything is within at least 5minutes per bike (eccept my office)
Dear Rick and Brian, I tried to contact you twice through the form on the website, but probably my question did not get through? Can you get in touch with me? I need to know a.s.a.p. if you allow me to use two of your great comics.
Thanks for the information!
I knew about their holiday leave, but expected it to be a bit later. I hope I can get in touch with Rick in January. Would love to reproduce two of the Kickstand comics in a book which I am writing.
As for today’s comic, I just completed a BikeOpinion survey about why I shop at a LBS. I responded, I like to hold something in my hands before I pay for it, they are knowledgeable, and bottom line, we need to keep them open. BTW, the Mayans must be right, the end is near because it is raining in Southern California. Watching local media before work this morning (Stormwatch 2012!!!) you would think so. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we’re kooks in the SoCal. But I like riding in the rain. When I was was a kid, I liked jumping in puddles too.
I just got to work from my 10 mile commute in San Diego’s first good rain of the season–StormWatch!!! That’s right on the money. All the morning riders were absent, but I love riding in the foul weather, all three days of it each year. Pretty soon it will be “cold” here too.
My Holiday rush has been made up of days like Tuesday, where the store brought in a total of $9.99 for one pair of pedals. I’m teetering on the brink of going out of business because of days like that.
I get people in here who ask tons of questions, taking up an hour, two, sometimes even three. After explaining how to shift, the difference between materials, the various kinds of bikes and such, they go off to BikesDirect. Then they show up later with a Motobecane/Mercier/Windsor/Gravity that needs work because it wasn’t assembled properly and expect me to work on it for free or for next to nothing. *sigh*
I don’t understand the mentality of cyclists that crab about the price of repair on their bicycles. What does it cost them to get auto repairs? My bicycle mechanic is excellent. He’s worth every $$ I pay him.
Typical motorist: “You paid HOW MUCH for your bike!? You can buy one in Halfords for less than £100!” Assertive cyclist: “So – how much does it cost just to replace a wing mirror on your car?”
Better ask the motorist for the price of his car and tell him that there are much cheaper!1 cars like Dacia, Saporisky Awtomobilebudiwny Sawod (ZAZ for your sanity ), Skoda, Lada, Luaz, VW UP and all the other rolling cubicles.
Some of those Bike Direct bikes- the Windsors such as the Kensington, Essex and Oxford, diamonds and mixtes – those aren’t bad. Classic durable frames with bottom end shimano and tektro parts. Most of the bike stores I’ve been to, don’t have anything in that configuration or price range. Classic looking internally geared hub commuter bike? Nope. just $1500 felts, cannondales, and specialized road or extreme mountain bikes. So some of the potential market I think is being missed.
In my younger days, I worked in a car stereo shop. The owner used to sell has products by reducing or not even charging labor. Eventually, his accountant convinced him not to give discounts on the labor but only on the product. This makes good business sense since the profit margin on physical product isn’t much. So let them bring in their bikes and charge for the labor.
Although I believe in this and have exercised it for years, the principle is failing me. When it’s bitter cold and blowing snow and it’s a chore even to drive, one trip to one location is just too attractive, especially when they provide heated underground parking. Meanwhile most of the local stores are on crowded streets with pay parking, beggars at the curb and lots of walking with bags in hand from here to there. That’s part of what’s doing the damage to local stores. It’s just not as convenient.
The problem with many/most (I did NOT say “all”) local stores, at least in my area, is the 1950s mindset. Open at 9 AM, close at 5 PM, half a day on Saturday, and closed on Sunday.
That doesn’t cut it in the 21st century. The big box store is open til 9 PM every day – including Sunday. Too bad, so sad – but its the unvarnished truth.
I love going to my local bike shop for stuff, but frequently I’m just capped out on bicycle consumables and hardware. It isn’t like groceries, or buying CDs.
Maybe $200 of service a year on three bikes and $100 more for accessories, tubes.
What I do is use the Internet to find out what products exist in the world, then either find out which local store carries them or can order them in, or tell my local store that I’d like to order one through them. They usually appreciate finding out about cool new things that no other store has.
Buy Local or Bye Bye Local!
Well Said
David is right on… Try having this conversation at the big box: “How do I adjust the high & low limits on the front deraileur”? – Guranttee it’ll be deer in the head lights….
So true. I try to buy as much as I can from my local LBS.
As others have said, I’ll buy online, things they do not carry.
It seems that Amazon and co are doing most of our shopping these days.
Also, the cost of motoring is starting to have an effect on how people shop.
Online, we can wander the world browsing here and there for what we imagine we need, or even have to get!
To leave the house, drive to the mall, rub shoulders with the ‘great unwashed’ and be exposed to all their ailments puts us at risk of bringing home some illness that we may then pass on to our loved ones etc. On top of which, the stress puts us at risk from a heart complaint and makes us less cheerful…
Enough of this soul-searching, gloom and despondency – that is the end of my Scrooge comments for the day
In short – the internet is replacing the LBS and supplies a wider range of stock for those with enough time to wait for our parts. Regular maintenance will make us aware of stuff that is wearing-out etc and helps us plan our shopping so that we should never be so rushed for a part that we cannot wait for it to be delivered.
On the other hand, a ride to our LBS costs us nothing but time and there is no carbon-footprint associated with it while a delivery truck has a huge carbon footprint…
So our bikes are the way to shop and help the planet – why should we consider anything else?
(He says looking out the window at black-ice and snow – okay on a trike but lethal on a bike!)
Okay – time to start eating my breakfast cereal and playing my guitar – have a good day y’all
deadon. internet is the change. big boxes must adapt, also.
A delivery truck spreads it carbon load over many packages, vs a person in a car doing 1 or 6 tasks.
I’m still searching for an LBS with a competent mechanic. The last LBS I tried for a tune-up gave my bike back in noticeably worse adjustment than it was in when I took it in. Before that, another shop failed to retighten my stem after overhauling my headset. I see no good reason to pay higher prices to an LBS when I can get better selection, service, and knowledge from the Internet.
Very few local stores (or big box stores for that matter) stock what I want to purchase. So off to the internet I go. I wear clothes in the Large Tall size, stores don’t stock them. I ride vintage IGH bkes in the XL (64cm range) stores don’t stock them nor the parts to repair them. I love ginger Altoids, stores don’t stock them. I shave using an old Rolls Safety Razor, I use Proaso Shaving Products, stores no longer stock it.
I prefer quality items, like leather shoes that can be resoled…want to guess what stores don’t stock? I would love to shop local but all the local stores (except my grocery store) are all big box stores that don’t carry what I want to purchase, most are filled with mediorce to poor quality high profit margin items. So off to the internet I go.
Aaron
Can’t argue with that. I also tend to look for and want more off the wall items. I do prefer shopping mom-and-pop stores, but they generally don’t have it, and can’t get it. Larger stores can often special-order what I want, prepaid in advance, with a minimum two-week wait. Big box stores look at me like I have lobsters crawling from my ears when I ask for thoe items.
I can order online, get what I want, delivered in 3 – 5 business days, and if it’s broken or wrong, I can normally just send it back.
In some ways it isn’t that different from living in a rural area before the age of cars. Back then the only thing the local generals carried were a few staple necessaries. If you needed anything else or specific, well it was time to pull out the big Sears, and Wards catalogs, often conveniently available at the local Telegraph office / catalog retail seller.
Amazon in many ways is very similar. I think when the small/large specialty businesses work with them, that is a good thing. Places like VeloFred or NiagraCycles have their inventory of potentially more esosteric or hard to find bicycle parts available through Amazon.
Choices…..
Do I buy from the interweb (more choice, less geld) but with things like clothes risk having to send stuff back ‘cos it’s the wrong size / doesn’t fit right / colour isn’t as reproduced on the website etc – or buy from a shop I can visit where I can see what the colour really is and try things on for size and fit? If I buy from the web will there be the real shop alternative next time I need it?
On the web I can find the specific rare / 2nd hand book or music that I want – but I miss out of the serendipitous finds that, until I went into the real shop, I didn’t know existed…
Most people seem to go into the bricks and mortar shop to handle the item (eg cameras, laptops) and then buy it cheaper online – personally, I prefer to research it online and make the final decision – and purchase – in the shop. If it goes wrong I can just take it back without the fuss of packaging and posting.
Assuming the shop is still there….
that’s the fun part of shopping : finding stuff you didn’t knew you wanted.
Webshops fail to deliver that part of the equation. Might as well ask robots to do my shopping and buy in bulk.
Here in Germany it is easier to return stuff purchased on internet. The law sais the the purchaser may return the purchased good within two weeks without being charged (when the good doesn’t show traces of usage).
In the “real” shop it is just goodwill and decision of the merchant to call off the deal. If he won’t, he won’t. Or he doesn’t give back the money but a coupon.
In October I tried to buy a good compact camera – locally. After intensive internet research I had decided for the Sony RX100. Not one of the bigger electronic markets in my region had this camera stored. They could have ordered it – with my guarantee to buy it if they do so. This would have combined the disadvantages of buying locally (go some miles to the shop, pay a higher price, bad returning conditions) and buying from web (can’t touch the device before you paid it, wait for the delivery). Na, thanks.
(The next bigger cities are ~50 km away.)
After my last try with amazon (24h delivery took 3weeks, local store provided same book within less than 24h) I only buy from net if local stores do not offer or can not order.Big Mall just see me once or twice the year. Only because of couriosity
I use to rent flats in places, where everything is within at least 5minutes per bike (eccept my office)
Dear Rick and Brian, I tried to contact you twice through the form on the website, but probably my question did not get through? Can you get in touch with me? I need to know a.s.a.p. if you allow me to use two of your great comics.
The message form on the website is not working. I sent a message about why they cancelled my paypal payment, no answer. Anyone out there?
Have a look at http://yehudamoon.com/fall-tidings/ for your answer…
Got it.
Also, they went on a one month vacation and expect to be back in early January.
Thanks for the information!
I knew about their holiday leave, but expected it to be a bit later. I hope I can get in touch with Rick in January. Would love to reproduce two of the Kickstand comics in a book which I am writing.
Write us at comics@yehudamoon.com – thanks!
As for today’s comic, I just completed a BikeOpinion survey about why I shop at a LBS. I responded, I like to hold something in my hands before I pay for it, they are knowledgeable, and bottom line, we need to keep them open. BTW, the Mayans must be right, the end is near because it is raining in Southern California. Watching local media before work this morning (Stormwatch 2012!!!) you would think so. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we’re kooks in the SoCal. But I like riding in the rain. When I was was a kid, I liked jumping in puddles too.
I just got to work from my 10 mile commute in San Diego’s first good rain of the season–StormWatch!!! That’s right on the money. All the morning riders were absent, but I love riding in the foul weather, all three days of it each year. Pretty soon it will be “cold” here too.
You gave up jumping in puddles for fun? Shame on you – no fun
My Holiday rush has been made up of days like Tuesday, where the store brought in a total of $9.99 for one pair of pedals. I’m teetering on the brink of going out of business because of days like that.
I get people in here who ask tons of questions, taking up an hour, two, sometimes even three. After explaining how to shift, the difference between materials, the various kinds of bikes and such, they go off to BikesDirect. Then they show up later with a Motobecane/Mercier/Windsor/Gravity that needs work because it wasn’t assembled properly and expect me to work on it for free or for next to nothing. *sigh*
I don’t understand the mentality of cyclists that crab about the price of repair on their bicycles. What does it cost them to get auto repairs? My bicycle mechanic is excellent. He’s worth every $$ I pay him.
Typical motorist: “You paid HOW MUCH for your bike!? You can buy one in Halfords for less than £100!” Assertive cyclist: “So – how much does it cost just to replace a wing mirror on your car?”
Better ask the motorist for the price of his car and tell him that there are much cheaper!1 cars like Dacia, Saporisky Awtomobilebudiwny Sawod (ZAZ for your sanity
), Skoda, Lada, Luaz, VW UP and all the other rolling cubicles. 
Some of those Bike Direct bikes- the Windsors such as the Kensington, Essex and Oxford, diamonds and mixtes – those aren’t bad. Classic durable frames with bottom end shimano and tektro parts. Most of the bike stores I’ve been to, don’t have anything in that configuration or price range. Classic looking internally geared hub commuter bike? Nope. just $1500 felts, cannondales, and specialized road or extreme mountain bikes. So some of the potential market I think is being missed.
In my younger days, I worked in a car stereo shop. The owner used to sell has products by reducing or not even charging labor. Eventually, his accountant convinced him not to give discounts on the labor but only on the product. This makes good business sense since the profit margin on physical product isn’t much. So let them bring in their bikes and charge for the labor.
Although I believe in this and have exercised it for years, the principle is failing me. When it’s bitter cold and blowing snow and it’s a chore even to drive, one trip to one location is just too attractive, especially when they provide heated underground parking. Meanwhile most of the local stores are on crowded streets with pay parking, beggars at the curb and lots of walking with bags in hand from here to there. That’s part of what’s doing the damage to local stores. It’s just not as convenient.
The problem with many/most (I did NOT say “all”) local stores, at least in my area, is the 1950s mindset. Open at 9 AM, close at 5 PM, half a day on Saturday, and closed on Sunday.
That doesn’t cut it in the 21st century. The big box store is open til 9 PM every day – including Sunday. Too bad, so sad – but its the unvarnished truth.
I love going to my local bike shop for stuff, but frequently I’m just capped out on bicycle consumables and hardware. It isn’t like groceries, or buying CDs.
Maybe $200 of service a year on three bikes and $100 more for accessories, tubes.
What I do is use the Internet to find out what products exist in the world, then either find out which local store carries them or can order them in, or tell my local store that I’d like to order one through them. They usually appreciate finding out about cool new things that no other store has.