I’ve found that cyclists here often don’t know they need to stop in the middle of the lane to be detected by the induction loops. They are always cowering on the left and they don’t notice that there are distinct cuts in the road surface where you should park your bike. Some intersections have little white diamonds and a tiny bicycle printed in the middle of the lane, but even then, a lot of gutter huggers never even see it!
I’m jealous that you even have such things. All I have are rectangular and circular loops, that have even sometimes been paved over so they’re invisible, and on some intersections they don’t recognize my bike. And yes, I make sure to set my wheels on the loops in the way that gets the most current to them.
The internet is not big enough to be invisible, I saw your Pinjarra cancer ride video via Aushiker on BNA yesterday, now here trying to resume my 2010 progress through Yehuda Moon re-read and you’re first commenter.
PS: Who waits for red lights at empty crossings anyway? =D
lol David, Aushiker is great for sharing posts, he has been around for so long and has such a large network good to see someone watched the vid as well!
@David re ‘Who waits for red lights at empty crossings anyway?’ – Ans: I do.
Since I started riding a bike in 1961 I have never run a Red light (Straight on – see later).
I might stop and push along the pedestrian route or of course or use the cycle lane if there is one (not all of them allow you to run a Red!) but I feel that if I run a red light then someday the worst case scenario – impatient driver comes from nowhere etc.
When driving I have all too often seen a cyclist taking a liberty and thought how careless of them as if I can see them, some other driver can and it gives us all a bad name – tarred with the same brush as it where. As I don’t wish to be the one responsible for doing that, I obey the law of the lights.
There is the idea that it is okay to follow the edge of the road and turn left/right on Red as that rarely means crossing any traffic flow and I am red faced to admit that I have done that a few times, especially when the light changes just before I get to the line and when there is no cross traffic anyway. I can’t remember ever jumping a Red when other vehicles are there/waiting – to avoid annoying any driver!
i run red lights for almost 20 years and not a single one complained.
i saw thousands of pedestrians cross at red lights some of them even dangerously but it never came to my mind that people who use their feet to move along are bad at all. so if someone might think bad of all cyclists coz he saw a few ignoring those luminous signs it tells more about him than about cyclists.
also i learned that green lights dont mean anything since i once got hit by an inattentive driver. luckily i drove a car when that happened, otherwise i’d certainly be dead now. therefore one better runs green lights as he does with red ones – carefully.
>i run red lights for almost 20 years and not a single one complained.
Yeah, the “problem” of people cycling through red lights and on sidewalks is a recent “problem”. Ten years ago nobody had decided it was an issue or “bad”.
I’m suspicious that it isn’t Detroit behind it all, trying to stop the velorution as their car sales go down and down. The movement against cycling on sidewalks is likely a divide-and-conquer technique to pit others that were previously allies (against car culture) against cycling.
There are A LOT more people riding these days so it’s more noticeable. And there are two basic ways to ride through a red light: speed through the intersection with little regard to pedestrians and cross traffic and slow-and-look then cross method. The first one is more prevalent in NYC and that’s what bothers people. I narrowly avoided cyclists blowing red lights many time when riding through intersections.
I also always stop and wait for red lights, whether I’m in my car or on my bike, even on empty country roads where there’s no traffic as far as the eye can see in any direction. Fortunately most of the lights in my area will detect my bike if I’m careful to stop directly on top of one edge of the induction loop. However, there are three intersections where I have trouble. One has been paved over and I can’t even see the loop; the other two have visible loops but they’re not sensitive enough to detect my bike. I wait until either a car comes along and trips the loop, or else until the lights have remained red for a long enough period (several minutes) that I can consider them “malfunctioning signals” and legally treat them like a four-way stop sign.
Thanks for the link Matt – Working in electronics most of my life, I was aware of these ‘D-loops’ – what I call them, and others. As the magnetic field resembles the capital D as it rises off the road then returns.
I have noticed that my wheels trigger these loops better than my car wheels and I think I know why as since I changed from 700c to 38 tyres, the greater distance from the road surface must make my bike less effective?
That was a great article, we should all be made to watch the video before we get a driving/riding licence…
We have a better solution : push buttons (and more recently : rain detectors … )
Never mind that inductive loop detectors only ever work if there is enough metal to detect.
I doubt a carbon bike or any other non-magnetic substance would trigger them.
My 1996 Trek 1200 (“ALUMINUM” spelled out proudly along the top tube) and my 1994 Specialized Sirrus (back when that was a road racer, not a flat-bar hybrid) both trigger induction loop signals, so long as I get right in the lane and center myself in the field.
In Wisconsin, if the light does not recognize you on a bicycle and respond in a reasonable amount of time (generally accepted to be one minute) after coming to a stop, you may then treat the light as a stop sign and proceed accordingly.
And since many of these loops are designed to detect the magnetic impulse created when ferrous metal passes into an electric field, you could just ride steel or cro-mo bikes rather than carbon fiber, aluminum alloy, or other exotic materials. Remember — STEEL IS REAL!!
Yeah, that’s a myth. The detectors use the eddy currents generated in a metallic body by an oscillating electric field. Those currents can be detected by induction in the loop after they shut down the AC that created the eddy currents in the first place. Aluminum works just as well as steel, CF not so good because that’s what is used to make resistors.
Despite how the law is written, traffic signals are designed for narcissistic automobile drivers (http://tomvanderbilt.com/traffic/) . Great follow up to the helmet law – they want to legislate safety and also passive-aggresively make us feel unwelcome with traffic signals that we *must* follow but don’t work for us. Run it Yehuda! But be safe. Everyone have a safe Critical Mass tommorrow!
Well, I would like to ask that everyone stop at a red light. One it’s the law, two, I’m tired of hearing about you from all my friends and on facebook. Thank you very much.
Being a subcompact driver, this doesn’t only happen on my bicycle or motorcycle, but even in my car! Seriously, if there’s only me at a 2ndary street light, I must get out/off and run over to the pedestrian light button to get the green light. Of course I know if I ran the red on the empty 4am streets I’d discover a cop just happened to be quietly sitting with his coffee in a parking lot nearby or something, LOL, so I figure it’s less of a transgression to go push the button.
Many times these inductive loops don’t even recognize my all steel Vespa scooter with a big lump of iron near the ground for the engine. Aligning with the cuts in the road helps, but sometimes, you just have to treat it like a stop sign.
Several magazines and online blogs/forums have tested the super-magnets that you are supposed to mount to the bottom of a bike/scooter/motorcycle. Rarely have they proven to increase the detection. One magazine attached 10 magnets on a motorcycle and it wouldn’t trip the light. Just another waste of money.
I can align myself all day, but the inductive loops they use around here do not ever detect my bicycle. Maybe it only works for steel bikes?
Waiting for the light that never changes is not the only reason I don’t wait at red lights though. The biggest one is safety. Every incident I’m aware of where a cyclist has been jumped and beaten/robbed (unfortunately there have been a lot of them in the area of my commute to work), happened where the cyclist was stopped at a light. Because of this, I now treat all red lights and stop signs as yields. I look very carefully, but I also make a concerted effort to keep moving whenever possible.
*ahem* “Loop Detector” It depends in large part to the weight of the metal in your bike, and the design of the detector, e.g. on a multi-lane road the detectors won’t be as sensitive such that a nearby car won’t trip the detector. Some bike heavy cities install extra (smaller) loops and turn up their sensitivity, to detect your bike.
There’s one in North Melbourne that never works. I used to go through there at night and wait and wait, then just gave up and went if no-one was coming, on the tree and the forest principle. They’re usually pretty good though.
I’ve found that cyclists here often don’t know they need to stop in the middle of the lane to be detected by the induction loops. They are always cowering on the left and they don’t notice that there are distinct cuts in the road surface where you should park your bike. Some intersections have little white diamonds and a tiny bicycle printed in the middle of the lane, but even then, a lot of gutter huggers never even see it!
I’m jealous that you even have such things. All I have are rectangular and circular loops, that have even sometimes been paved over so they’re invisible, and on some intersections they don’t recognize my bike. And yes, I make sure to set my wheels on the loops in the way that gets the most current to them.
The internet is not big enough to be invisible, I saw your Pinjarra cancer ride video via Aushiker on BNA yesterday, now here trying to resume my 2010 progress through Yehuda Moon re-read and you’re first commenter.
PS: Who waits for red lights at empty crossings anyway? =D
lol David, Aushiker is great for sharing posts, he has been around for so long and has such a large network
good to see someone watched the vid as well!
@David re ‘Who waits for red lights at empty crossings anyway?’ – Ans: I do.
Since I started riding a bike in 1961 I have never run a Red light (Straight on – see later).
I might stop and push along the pedestrian route or of course or use the cycle lane if there is one (not all of them allow you to run a Red!) but I feel that if I run a red light then someday the worst case scenario – impatient driver comes from nowhere etc.
When driving I have all too often seen a cyclist taking a liberty and thought how careless of them as if I can see them, some other driver can and it gives us all a bad name – tarred with the same brush as it where. As I don’t wish to be the one responsible for doing that, I obey the law of the lights.
There is the idea that it is okay to follow the edge of the road and turn left/right on Red as that rarely means crossing any traffic flow and I am red faced to admit that I have done that a few times, especially when the light changes just before I get to the line and when there is no cross traffic anyway. I can’t remember ever jumping a Red when other vehicles are there/waiting – to avoid annoying any driver!
i run red lights for almost 20 years and not a single one complained.
i saw thousands of pedestrians cross at red lights some of them even dangerously but it never came to my mind that people who use their feet to move along are bad at all. so if someone might think bad of all cyclists coz he saw a few ignoring those luminous signs it tells more about him than about cyclists.
also i learned that green lights dont mean anything since i once got hit by an inattentive driver. luckily i drove a car when that happened, otherwise i’d certainly be dead now. therefore one better runs green lights as he does with red ones – carefully.
>i run red lights for almost 20 years and not a single one complained.
Yeah, the “problem” of people cycling through red lights and on sidewalks is a recent “problem”. Ten years ago nobody had decided it was an issue or “bad”.
I’m suspicious that it isn’t Detroit behind it all, trying to stop the velorution as their car sales go down and down. The movement against cycling on sidewalks is likely a divide-and-conquer technique to pit others that were previously allies (against car culture) against cycling.
There are A LOT more people riding these days so it’s more noticeable. And there are two basic ways to ride through a red light: speed through the intersection with little regard to pedestrians and cross traffic and slow-and-look then cross method. The first one is more prevalent in NYC and that’s what bothers people. I narrowly avoided cyclists blowing red lights many time when riding through intersections.
I also always stop and wait for red lights, whether I’m in my car or on my bike, even on empty country roads where there’s no traffic as far as the eye can see in any direction. Fortunately most of the lights in my area will detect my bike if I’m careful to stop directly on top of one edge of the induction loop. However, there are three intersections where I have trouble. One has been paved over and I can’t even see the loop; the other two have visible loops but they’re not sensitive enough to detect my bike. I wait until either a car comes along and trips the loop, or else until the lights have remained red for a long enough period (several minutes) that I can consider them “malfunctioning signals” and legally treat them like a four-way stop sign.
I felt this way for a LOOOONG time. Then I read this article and my world changed for the better.
http://momentummag.com/videos/how-to-trigger-a-traffic-light-on-your-bike
This is great! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the link Matt – Working in electronics most of my life, I was aware of these ‘D-loops’ – what I call them, and others. As the magnetic field resembles the capital D as it rises off the road then returns.
I have noticed that my wheels trigger these loops better than my car wheels and I think I know why as since I changed from 700c to 38 tyres, the greater distance from the road surface must make my bike less effective?
That was a great article, we should all be made to watch the video before we get a driving/riding licence…
We have a better solution : push buttons (and more recently : rain detectors … )
Never mind that inductive loop detectors only ever work if there is enough metal to detect.
I doubt a carbon bike or any other non-magnetic substance would trigger them.
My 1996 Trek 1200 (“ALUMINUM” spelled out proudly along the top tube) and my 1994 Specialized Sirrus (back when that was a road racer, not a flat-bar hybrid) both trigger induction loop signals, so long as I get right in the lane and center myself in the field.
My 2010 Cervelo S2? Um…not so much. ^_^
Rats! in my town, they placed the cables as in rectagular under an agle of 45deg. so it is hard to hit them.
Daylight is when I feel most invisible.
K’Tesh – We’ve seen your bike – night times the cagers sure won’t miss you, but they may be so dazzled they can’t see anything else….
Like
In Wisconsin, if the light does not recognize you on a bicycle and respond in a reasonable amount of time (generally accepted to be one minute) after coming to a stop, you may then treat the light as a stop sign and proceed accordingly.
And since many of these loops are designed to detect the magnetic impulse created when ferrous metal passes into an electric field, you could just ride steel or cro-mo bikes rather than carbon fiber, aluminum alloy, or other exotic materials. Remember — STEEL IS REAL!!
I read on some website about people installing a super strong magnet under their frame to activate detection loops.
Yeah, that’s a myth. The detectors use the eddy currents generated in a metallic body by an oscillating electric field. Those currents can be detected by induction in the loop after they shut down the AC that created the eddy currents in the first place. Aluminum works just as well as steel, CF not so good because that’s what is used to make resistors.
In theory they probably could detect tiny bits of metallic content.
However they can’t risk setting the trigger-level too low, because that would cause seemingly random activations.
I do wonder if there is a standard at all by which these things can be tested. I doubt there is one as they’re meant for cars by default.
My bike’s made of Rearden metal…
Most jurisdictions have similar provisions.
Despite how the law is written, traffic signals are designed for narcissistic automobile drivers (http://tomvanderbilt.com/traffic/) . Great follow up to the helmet law – they want to legislate safety and also passive-aggresively make us feel unwelcome with traffic signals that we *must* follow but don’t work for us. Run it Yehuda! But be safe. Everyone have a safe Critical Mass tommorrow!
Well, I would like to ask that everyone stop at a red light. One it’s the law, two, I’m tired of hearing about you from all my friends and on facebook. Thank you very much.
*LIKE*
Being a subcompact driver, this doesn’t only happen on my bicycle or motorcycle, but even in my car! Seriously, if there’s only me at a 2ndary street light, I must get out/off and run over to the pedestrian light button to get the green light. Of course I know if I ran the red on the empty 4am streets I’d discover a cop just happened to be quietly sitting with his coffee in a parking lot nearby or something, LOL, so I figure it’s less of a transgression to go push the button.
Many times these inductive loops don’t even recognize my all steel Vespa scooter with a big lump of iron near the ground for the engine. Aligning with the cuts in the road helps, but sometimes, you just have to treat it like a stop sign.
Several magazines and online blogs/forums have tested the super-magnets that you are supposed to mount to the bottom of a bike/scooter/motorcycle. Rarely have they proven to increase the detection. One magazine attached 10 magnets on a motorcycle and it wouldn’t trip the light. Just another waste of money.
thanks Rick the doctors at the office just realized I’m taking a break… It was a much needed laugh though.
I know this feeling…
i have noticed that they put them in all different spots. i think its a conspiracy against us bicyclists, just to confuse us.
I can align myself all day, but the inductive loops they use around here do not ever detect my bicycle. Maybe it only works for steel bikes?
Waiting for the light that never changes is not the only reason I don’t wait at red lights though. The biggest one is safety. Every incident I’m aware of where a cyclist has been jumped and beaten/robbed (unfortunately there have been a lot of them in the area of my commute to work), happened where the cyclist was stopped at a light. Because of this, I now treat all red lights and stop signs as yields. I look very carefully, but I also make a concerted effort to keep moving whenever possible.
*ahem* “Loop Detector” It depends in large part to the weight of the metal in your bike, and the design of the detector, e.g. on a multi-lane road the detectors won’t be as sensitive such that a nearby car won’t trip the detector. Some bike heavy cities install extra (smaller) loops and turn up their sensitivity, to detect your bike.
There’s one in North Melbourne that never works. I used to go through there at night and wait and wait, then just gave up and went if no-one was coming, on the tree and the forest principle. They’re usually pretty good though.
Having said that, I know how Yehuda feels. When they don’t work it makes me very cross.