Tracy Grimshaw’s headline is all I could see there
However, I cricked my back yesterday (It has been weak for decades since an accident) and getting little to no sleep does nothing for my observational skills. Also on a max intake of Ibuprofen 400 and Co-Codamol 5/500 (x 2 each!) so not thinking too clearly at the moment…
I just called my doctor who is writing a prescription for some stronger pain relief etc. The injury should heal in time – a couple of weeks if memory serves.
“Safety is killing us”… Sorry to break it to you, if you draw breath, you’re not going to get out of life alive (and holding your breath will only quicken things).
Yes, but at least we should be able to get thru that short life without overbearing do-gooders intent on saving us from ourselves. Using their methods, which are the only correct ones, of course.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
Given that “anecdotal helmet savior stories” are much more common than “anecdotal helmet killer stories”, I’d rather err on the side of wearing a helmet.
I fell on ice in Winter and cracked my helmet and still had a bump the size of an egg and headache for several days. I’m sure, if I wasn’t wearing a helmet, I’d have ended up in ER. A helmet won’t save you from a speeding car, but it can minimize the effects of minor crashes which are a lot more common than deadly accidents. People who argue against helmets are just as close-minded as those arguing for helmets: it’s not about saving lives, it’s about preventing injuries. Whether you want to wear one is a personal choice.
So, that means you are wearing a helmet in your car, when walking and especially when climbing stairs as well? Given that the likelyhood of injury is – as far as I’ve read so far – at least as high as on the bike (if not higher), that would be the logical choice.
Yes. Wearing a helmet will reduce the severity of injuries suffered while walking, running, having a shower, falling out of bed, etc. But it’s inappropriate for most of those activities. Whereas I find it’s not a major hardship to wear one while riding a bike, and I’ve broken two (in place of my head) already.
So no, it’s not a magic cure-all, and you’re unlikely to find anyone who seriously believes it is. But helmets DO reduce the severity of inevitable injuries. So that’s why I wear one.
(apparently I cannot reply to a reply, so: @Pierre)
A helmet while walking or in the car is no more or less inconvenient than on the bike (I’d guess less so, as – especially in the car – you’re not sweating so much) – so one of the things I do not understand is why people who say they are safety-concious start with the least dangerous occupation rather than with the most dangerous one. It’s just not consistent. Hence my comment. For me, this line of thought was one of the reasons to stop wearing a helmet (as I *don’t* see the necessity of wearing one in the car, given the odds, so why should I wear one on the bike), next to the stats coming from Australia and their big “helmet experiment” causing enough doubt as the efficiency of bicycle helmets in general.
And: We were already talking about anecdotes – unfortunately, the examples you bring are nothing more than that, just as mine (where I never hit my head within the coverage area of a bicycle helmet during any of my accidents over the past xxxxxxkm/30 years) are also nothing more than that.
Nonetheless, it would never occur to me to try and forbid the wearing of such helmets. Unfortunately, there seem to be many who try to forbid the “non-wearing” of them…
Head injuries are not inevitable. For most of us they are extremely unlikely. – The Don
I wish that I could be ranked with the “most”, but I’ve experienced 3 concussions in my life… 1st, from a kite flying accident (2/3m X 2m X 7m kite)(Brill Hill Buckinghamshire, UK 89/10/8). 2nd, struck with my own bike pump during an “incident” w/cagers (don’t ask, I am unable to recall exactly what happened… No helmet). 3rd, when I was run into the back of a stopped car while trying not to go under the wheels of the massive truck barreling down on me (I hit car, then the pavement… I was wearing a helmet, the doctor was sure it saved my life). I value what grey matter I have left, so I’m not risking it w/o a helmet (I wear it when I fly my kite too now).
Oh yes – just spotted that you can’t reply to a reply beyond three tiers. Oh well…
Fair points, The Don and emgaron, I wasn’t trying to suggest that all should wear helmets, just as I don’t think you guys were trying to suggest that nobody should wear a helmet. I think both helmet-wearers and non-helmet-wearers get a bit tetchy about those on the very opinionated opposite side of their choice calling them stupid for the decisions they make.
The “inevitable injuries” I was talking about were simply that eventually most people who ride bikes often enough, for long enough, gain stories about injuries, whether their own or others’. Some are luckier than others; some are more careful than others.
I choose to wear a helmet. I choose to wear a seat belt in the car. I choose to tie my shoelaces. I don’t look down on anyone who chooses differently, but I resent anyone thinking I’m somehow stupid or inferior for the choices I’ve made. Just as I don’t think anyone’s stupid or inferior for the choices they’ve made. Well, maybe the one about not tying the shoelaces…
I don’t argue about helmets and their benefit, I argue about the degree of risk! I’ve hit my head once in over forty years of cycling and that was my face, which would have been unprotected anyway. If you don’t trip and fall every week, you’re not going to have protection against trip and fall. If you do, you’ll likely start wearing knee and elbow pads or carrying a walking stick. Helmets are there, they’re a good tool for those who feel the need, but like walking sticks and knee pads, they shouldn’t be required by government for all persons engaging in the activity that SOME persons do clumsily.
“I fell on ice in Winter and cracked my helmet and still had a bump the size an egg and headache for several days. I’m sure, if I wasn’t wearing a helmet, I’d have ended up in ER.”
That’s an example of belief that every cracked helmet is a head injury prevented. But that belief is false. The number of “saved my life” stories pretty obviously exceeds the maximum number of cyclist deaths ever recorded. Ditto for “saved me from ER.”
Bike helmets are soft plastic. I’ve seen them crack from being dropped. I have two friends who cracked theirs from bumps so gentle the wearers didn’t even know they’d touched. And bike helmets are quite a bit bigger than heads, so at least some people that would have had a near miss dent a piece of soft plastic. They yell “It saved my life!” and the manufacturers smile all the way to the bank.
BTW, Adam – I’ve fallen walking in winter way more than riding my bike. Same for most people. How soon should we see Winter Helmets for All Occasions?
Oh great, while we’re on *that* level… The only bike-accident that got me into hospital for a night for fear of damage to my head was the single one where I *was* wearing a helmet (which didn’t even get scratched, btw…).
What’s the significance of this? Right: Nothing, just like all other anecdotes…
But then again, last year I would have loved to have worn a foot-helmet, that might have spared my ankle…
Helmets are a simple, basic, and prudent precaution is all. Sure, I don’t like wearing one. They’re often ugly, hot, and aggravating. But still, in a crash, minor or major, it’s better to have something protecting your head than nothing. Broken bones and scrapes will heal, but a head injury…
However, if people don’t want to wear one, that’s their decision to make. I don’t care for the sarcastic, condescending attitude of the comments directed toward those who choose to wear helmets, though. I’ve found, at least in my area, that the majority of cyclists who wear helmets generally have no problem with those who don’t; it’s often the non-helmet wearers who seem to have the chip on their shoulder.
Not at all my experience. That chip on the helmetless rider’s shoulder is probably from being scolded and preached at by multiple “moral busybodies.” (great quote, that–I’m gonna remember it.) That said I wear a helmet. Mainly to save my wife’s forehead from worry lines…B-)
Bingo!!!!!!! Despite my reputation and perception as a completely anti-helmet-curmudgeon, there are a few times and places when I wear one. Anytime I’m mountain biking. On my 0500 morning rides (it’s night and I live in the boonies, and there are some nasty potholes). For the moment, when I’m on my recently built 1990 Schwinn Paramount TT bike – it’s fast, touchy, and I’m having a difficult time getting used to the TT bars. Transitioning is a scary bitch.
On the other hand, with the crowds riding on Saturday and Sunday around Ashland, VA (a very bicycle friendly city 15 miles north of Richmond), I’m one of a very small minority who rides helmet-less. By choice. And I get real tired of the “where’s your helmet?” comments as other riders pass me (average is usually 3-4 per Sunday). Don’t ask what I’m like when somebody decides to lecture me at the local coffee house, “for my own good” of course.
Above all, in the past few years, the argument has escalated to the point that helmets seem to have acquired some kind of magic powers that’ll protect cyclists from EVERYTHING dangerous. Or so the proponents seem to claim.
Finally, add in my personal opinion of someone who’s old enough to remember the John Kennedy days well, and actually understand what was going on at that time: This country, in general, has turned into a pack of wimps who are incapable of ever going back to the moon, or doing anything else for that matter that would take serious risk. We all want everything oh-so-safe nowadays.
“it’s often the non-helmet wearers who seem to have the chip on their shoulder.”
Yup. It indeed seems that the anti-helmet side is usually more vocal and more persistent on bike forums than the pro-helmet people.
When I do long dayrides or tours outside of the city I often don’t wear a helmet. The chances of minor accidents are lower while the chances of getting rear-ended by a car going at 50mph are greater, in which case a helmet won’t do squat for me anyway. But I do wear one when commuting and mountain biking.
@ AdamDZ: “It indeed seems that the anti-helmet side is usually more vocal and more persistent on bike forums than the pro-helmet people.”
The people who think helmets are a scam have way more data on their side. The helmet pushers run out of steam after “It saved my life” and an “organ donor” wisecrack.
Helmets are a simple, basic, and prudent precaution is all. Sure, I don’t like wearing one. They’re often ugly, hot, and aggravating. But still, in a crash, minor or major, it’s better to have something protecting your head than nothing. Broken bones and scrapes will heal, but a head injury… – Adam in Indiana
@ Adam: “are a simple, basic, and prudent precaution is all. Sure, I don’t like wearing one. They’re often ugly, hot, and aggravating. But still, in a crash, minor or major, it’s better to have something protecting your head than nothing.” But how is that true ONLY while riding a bike? Do you guys not know that almost all bad head injuries have nothing to do with riding bikes?
You should read up on this. Then you can explain why you push helmets for ONLY such a tiny portion of head injuries.
“But how is that true ONLY while riding a bike? Do you guys not know that almost all bad head injuries have nothing to do with riding bikes?
You should read up on this. Then you can explain why you push helmets for ONLY such a tiny portion of head injuries.” — DS
Because we’re talking about riding bikes, obviously. If this were a baseball forum, would you use the same logic for someone who didn’t want to wear a batting helmet in a batting cage? What about hockey players? How ’bout a construction worker on a jobsite? Each one of these taken by itself makes up a “tiny portion of head injuries”, but each is a situation where it seems perfectly logical to wear a helmet, simply because of the risk.
And frankly, yes, I think there is a bit of risk to my head in riding a bicycle, so I wear a helmet. Simple as that.
@Adam: So what you’re really saying is this:
Bell Sports looked at the <500 bike head injury deaths in the U.S. and said "Hey, if we can scare bike people into wearing helmets. We'll make a fortune!"
But when someone said "Hey, there's thousands of walking head injury deaths each year, and maybe 25,000 inside cars! Let's make an even bigger fortune there!" then the people at Bell Sports said "Naw, let's just do bikes."
So how do you decide who should wear helmets? Not cost to society, cause that would put them on motorists and walkers. Not risk per mile cause that's worse for walkers and about the same for city drivers. Not risk per hour cause you'd wear one walking in winter or walking down steps.
Its just marketing. Bell said "There are dudes who will buy anything for their bikes. Lets sell foam hats and say its for safety." Then they started saying "The racers all wear them so you should." Next thing you know, whee! People riding around the block get told they need a garish streamlined perforated picnic cooler on their head or they'll die! And everyone who has a grasshopper hit their hat says "It saved my life!!!!!"
DS: No, that’s not what I said, actually. I made a reference to other activities where no one seemingly questions the wisdom of wearing a helmet, and then compared that to cycling. I, for one, see the wisdom in wearing a helmet while cycling just the same as those other activities. If someone else feels different and doesn’t wear a helmet, I’m actually quite fine with that.
As a side note… Once again, it’s the anti-helmet voice that resorts to sarcasm, personal attacks (my previous grasshopper comment was a bit of a joke on myself, by the way…perhaps I should have made that more obvious), and wordy, adjective-loaded insults. None of these things have any place in a civil discussion. And if anyone has taken any of my comments in those ways, I apologize.
Must be different attitudes in different areas, then.
And just to throw in my own “anecdotal helmet savior story”… Over the years, my helmet has saved me from countless chunks of gravel, road debris, and even overweight grasshoppers flying into the side of my head. I couldn’t even imagine all the cuts, bruises, and headaches I’d have suffered without wearing one! =P
The plethora of anecdotal evidence mostly seems to show that helmet-wearing cyclists have more accidents and bang their protected heads more than lidless riders bang their unprotected ones.
Two arguments against helmets are: that it makes cycling appear more dangerous than it actually is
and: it makes personal protection the issue instead of road safety.
I do agree that making too much of a fuss over “always wear your helmet!!” can make cycling seem more dangerous than it is. For ones thinking of getting into cycling for whatever reason, it very well could give them second thoughts about it.
“Wow… Is really that dangerous? I don’t know if I want to be constantly at risk every time I’m on a bike…”
That said, again, I always wear a helmet (much as I don’t want to), simply because a head injury has such high potential to be a game-ender.
“It’s all fun and games until…”
I tried to resist, but I had to chime in here on this “helmet” debate. I too have had 4 instances of shattered helmets that have saved my head from more damage, two of which were severe enough that I am fairly certain I would have had at least a trip to the ER if I weren’t wearing it.
That being said, I don’t think it is my (or anyone else’s) place to tell others that they should or shouldn’t wear a helmet. If you’re gonna ride with me, you better be wearing a helmet though. If you crash and rock your dome, I don’t drag people out of the woods…
Just sounds to me like Teamfubar rides pretty hard back on the trails. When you’re really pushing it, there’s always a risk of messing up. When you mess up on a tough trail section, there’s always the possibility of winding up in a tree or off a cliff or other such horrible situation.
I’ve got an enduro race coming up in a couple weeks. For the uphill segments I’ll have my helmet securely strapped to my backpack, along with my knee/shin, and elbow/forearm guards. Heck, I might even take my gloves off. But you can bet your race fees that for the DH sections I’m gonna be suited up like Darth Vader’s infantry.
I did not question the importance of a helmet when riding challenging downhill/enduro/etc. trails. I would be wearing one during such activity (as opposed to daily commuting, for instance) as well. That was not the point.
yep, exactly, it’s safety equipment and tools available for use as the ADULT chooses based on their experienced risk assessment prior to engaging the activity.
I would be willing to stand behind a mandatory helmets for kids law.
@Yehuda Moon: Once you iron out all the bugs on the new site, will folks be able to delete their own posts? I forgot to include a link in a post I just made, and all I could do was insert the link in a reply to my post.
Nah – as I mentioned in a previous comment, I like the fact that comments can’t be deleted… much like real conversation. Plus, allowing readers to delete comments might mean whole threads lose their meaning and context.
I still have yet to find a ‘like / dislike comments’ plugin for WordPress that doesn’t break comments. So that might be a ways off as well.
And any plugin that promises to email readers with new comments only works on a post-by-post basis…
If we’re never going to be able to delete comments then I guess, in order to turn on the email option, I’ll have to leave an otherwise useless one out here every day when I don’t have a worthwhile comment to make. Like this one, for instance. I’d have deleted it immediately after posting if I were able. Were deleted comments really such a big problem on the old system that the practice had to be forbidden?
I wear a helmet every time I ride for a few reasons. First is that when I ride on the road, I typically reach speeds where if I lose control due to some idiot’s driving or the road conditions, I want something between my head and the pavement. When off-road, it’s rocks and trees… The second reason is to set the example for my kids. If I wear a helmet every time, they see that it is important they wear theirs. My son got a pretty big “strawberry” on his face from a crash last night. If he wasn’t wearing a helmet, it would have been much, much worse.
And then there’s this attempt to put the helmet back in “helmetless” http://www.hovding.com/en/how
What do you think? For me the cost is very prohibitive (iirc it’s $600), one-time use only, and, for me anyways, wearing a big-ol’ snap scarf is as much a hassle as a plastic lid.
Is that ad for reals? And it seems that they’d have better luck if they didn’t have runway models as their target audience. Not saying models don’t ride, but I can’t take this seriously. Throw one on George Hincapie and drop the price A BIT, and then they’ll be talking. And kuddos to Rick for getting us all fired up on this topic AGAIN. lol
I’ve seen enough cases in person where a helmet mitigated the severity of an injury that I am a firm believer in wearing one, though I would not force the choice on others. Our city’s mayor recently had a cycling accident that resulted in a cracked helmet and a few weeks off the bike for other injuries. This didn’t even involve a car and it happened on a bike trail. http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/injured-mayor-returns-to-work-159788375.html
I fully know a helmet will not protect against everything (the anti helmet crowd likes to point this out). No it does not make me invulnerable, but it will lessen the severity of many injuries.
@k’tesh: I call BS on the kite thing. I think, in the interest of pointless helmet arguments on the internet everywhere, you should upload a video or picture of you flying a kite whilst properly helmented. Or helmeted, whichever you prefer. (I’m mostly kidding, but that would be awesome.)
Ben, perhaps you did not read carefully enough. K’tesh was not talking about just ANY kite. A kite of the proportions K’tesh stated is capable of lifting a grown man off the ground and high up…! and, some moments later, potentially smash the person back down on the ground very severely… or drag the person along for hundreds of yards… etc. Such things can happen to a very experienced kiter as well.
Check out the top left side of this photo… (Kite hopper comes a cropper) (and that’s the medical tag (next to the article) that I was given while in hospital).
Commenting desperately needs a “like” function. That is really cool. I completely thought you guys were joking about the kites, I stand corrected. As someone who already has a dorky hobby (cycling), I think flying kites so giant they can pick you up is pretty baller.
Also, helment. Gotta make sure we stay on subject. Ride on, K’tesh and Birch Creek!
How comes,nearly everyone who wears a helmet can tell a story where it saved his live?
And why is cycling so save in the neatherlands? very little head injuries compared to other countries, everybody rides, but nobody (instead of german Tourist wears a helmet, not even the childreen.
Seems the more helmets on bikers heads, the more head injuries or at least accidents.
But there is tons of data and studies proving that helmets do cut the chance of debilitating brain injury by over 50%. It’s not about keeping the head pristine, that foam is all about reducing the g-forces on the brain from a sudden force which is where most of the debilitation in average bicycling brain injury comes from. Anyway, not going to debate here, already getting enough of arguing without facts to back it up from the election year.
There’s a difference between a published study and a study that uses sound methodology. There’s lots of studies concluding benefits of helmets. I’ve read many of them. (I’m a grad student studying statistics.) What I have never read, however, is a study that uses sound methodology to reach such a conclusion. That’s not to say that every study claiming no statistical benefit of helmets uses sound methodology; they’re often done poorly, also. What it does mean is that the data do not support rejecting the null hypothesis that helmets offer no statistical benefit against injury. This shouldn’t seem surprising, considering helmets provide physical mechanisms for mitigating some injuries and exacerbating others.
The strip mentions the anecdotal evidence vs. statistical data argument. I have never actually seen the statistical data. Can someone point me to a link of good statistics on helmet safety?
>>>Can someone point me to a link of good statistics on helmet safety?
>>>
>>Would you prefer statistics that proved that helmets save lives or ones that
>>show that they don’t?
>>
>Both would probably be better.
>
Both it is.
I wear a helmet (almost) every time I put foot to bike pedal. That’s because the drivers around here have the intelligence of a chimpanzee on crack (and I apologize to all the crack-smoking chimpanzees on the forum for insulting their intelligence), and won’t hesitate to do something stupid and life-threatening (my life, not theirs) when they are driving around me, including such stunts as passing by running through a ditch, passing me by driving on a sidewalk, passing by driving through a parking lot… not to mention the “almost” passes that didn’t quite clear me on both sides, that was freaking scary when it happened. The biggest thing about all these dangerous events was I had no control of them other than to not be there when it happened, i.e. stay off the roads with my bike. I find this unacceptable and say that it must change.
Too many people believe that cycling safety begins with wearing a helmet. Actually, wearing a helmet (even if we assume they actually prevent severe injuries, which is itself a dubious assumption) should be the very last item on a cyclists list of safety precautions. Nearly every other safety precaution, such as lights when riding at night, proper route selection, proper lane positioning, proper bicycle maintenance, etc., can prevent accidents. Helmets and other body protection gear can do virtually nothing to prevent accidents. It’s always better to prevent an accident than to mitigate damage caused by an accident.
I often see cyclists riding really dangerously along my (bicycle) commute. For example, they’ll ride so close to the curb that the only direction in which they could take evasive action, should the need arise, is into traffic. Or they’ll ride down the wrong side of the street. Or they’ll weave in and out of parallel parked cars. Or they’ll ride on the street at night without lights or with lights so small/weak that they still can’t be seen until my light illuminates them. Many times, these cyclists are wearing helmets. I doubt they get the irony.
Very good points, I agree. Cyclists who want respect from motorists need to be responsible “drivers” themselves, and that goes hand-in-hand with cycling safely. Making sure you’re seen and riding predictably goes a long way.
One final point: if it weren’t for cars on the road, I most likely wouldn’t wear a helmet. I trust myself and my own riding skill, but I don’t trust the guy in the car coming up behind me while I’m at a stoplight. True, a helmet may not help much in vehicle collisions, but it certainly can’t hurt, and it’s a very inexpensive and simple precaution.
>I trust myself and my own riding skill, but I don’t trust the guy in the car
>coming up behind me while I’m at a stoplight.
That’s exactly why I proceed through signaled intersections as soon as the way is clear. Legal or not, it enhances my safety without negatively affecting anyone else.
>True, a helmet may not help much in vehicle collisions, but it certainly can’t
>hurt
Actually, they can hurt. Many people make the decision to wear a helmet while under the impression that they can only provide benefit, not detriment, but that isn’t true. They can make injuries worse than they would otherwise be.
I choose to wear a helmet for commuting (almost all my bike miles) and have at least two close friends who have been in accidents where the helmets were badly damaged but not their heads. I think a helmet costs less than an ambulance ride, and four orders of magnitude less than a head injury might cost me in lost lifetime earnings or medical costs. My helmet is well ventilated and comfortable, and includes a rearview mirror, reflective tape, and lights. It is part of how I ride safely.
I must have missed something. What TV show?
This one?
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8524906
I think the trailer manufacturer should use that “resident expert” footage in their advertising. Hardly a scratch!
Tracy Grimshaw’s headline is all I could see there
However, I cricked my back yesterday (It has been weak for decades since an accident) and getting little to no sleep does nothing for my observational skills. Also on a max intake of Ibuprofen 400 and Co-Codamol 5/500 (x 2 each!) so not thinking too clearly at the moment…
I just called my doctor who is writing a prescription for some stronger pain relief etc. The injury should heal in time – a couple of weeks if memory serves.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
@Innes: The TV show (news broadcast?) mentioned in yesterday’s strip .
LINK: http://yehudamoon.com/09052012/
“Safety is killing us”… Sorry to break it to you, if you draw breath, you’re not going to get out of life alive (and holding your breath will only quicken things).
Yes, but at least we should be able to get thru that short life without overbearing do-gooders intent on saving us from ourselves. Using their methods, which are the only correct ones, of course.
But of course. We *really* need to let Darwinism work. Unfortunately, its pretty obvious that it hasn’t been allowed to work for some time.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
- C. S. Lewis
(That’s too good a quote to go unattributed!)
I’m really suppressing a very strong urge to go on a rant about the difference between “Morality” and “Ethics”.
Rant away. I live to learn.
Given that “anecdotal helmet savior stories” are much more common than “anecdotal helmet killer stories”, I’d rather err on the side of wearing a helmet.
I fell off my bike and didn’t die. I wasn’t wearing a helmet so it must have been my lucky underpants that saved my life.
I fell on ice in Winter and cracked my helmet and still had a bump the size of an egg and headache for several days. I’m sure, if I wasn’t wearing a helmet, I’d have ended up in ER. A helmet won’t save you from a speeding car, but it can minimize the effects of minor crashes which are a lot more common than deadly accidents. People who argue against helmets are just as close-minded as those arguing for helmets: it’s not about saving lives, it’s about preventing injuries. Whether you want to wear one is a personal choice.
So, that means you are wearing a helmet in your car, when walking and especially when climbing stairs as well? Given that the likelyhood of injury is – as far as I’ve read so far – at least as high as on the bike (if not higher), that would be the logical choice.
Yes. Wearing a helmet will reduce the severity of injuries suffered while walking, running, having a shower, falling out of bed, etc. But it’s inappropriate for most of those activities. Whereas I find it’s not a major hardship to wear one while riding a bike, and I’ve broken two (in place of my head) already.
So no, it’s not a magic cure-all, and you’re unlikely to find anyone who seriously believes it is. But helmets DO reduce the severity of inevitable injuries. So that’s why I wear one.
(apparently I cannot reply to a reply, so: @Pierre)
A helmet while walking or in the car is no more or less inconvenient than on the bike (I’d guess less so, as – especially in the car – you’re not sweating so much) – so one of the things I do not understand is why people who say they are safety-concious start with the least dangerous occupation rather than with the most dangerous one. It’s just not consistent. Hence my comment. For me, this line of thought was one of the reasons to stop wearing a helmet (as I *don’t* see the necessity of wearing one in the car, given the odds, so why should I wear one on the bike), next to the stats coming from Australia and their big “helmet experiment” causing enough doubt as the efficiency of bicycle helmets in general.
And: We were already talking about anecdotes – unfortunately, the examples you bring are nothing more than that, just as mine (where I never hit my head within the coverage area of a bicycle helmet during any of my accidents over the past xxxxxxkm/30 years) are also nothing more than that.
Nonetheless, it would never occur to me to try and forbid the wearing of such helmets. Unfortunately, there seem to be many who try to forbid the “non-wearing” of them…
@Pierre
Head injuries are not inevitable. For most of us they are extremely unlikely.
Head injuries are not inevitable. For most of us they are extremely unlikely. – The Don
I wish that I could be ranked with the “most”, but I’ve experienced 3 concussions in my life… 1st, from a kite flying accident (2/3m X 2m X 7m kite)(Brill Hill Buckinghamshire, UK 89/10/8). 2nd, struck with my own bike pump during an “incident” w/cagers (don’t ask, I am unable to recall exactly what happened… No helmet). 3rd, when I was run into the back of a stopped car while trying not to go under the wheels of the massive truck barreling down on me (I hit car, then the pavement… I was wearing a helmet, the doctor was sure it saved my life). I value what grey matter I have left, so I’m not risking it w/o a helmet (I wear it when I fly my kite too now).
Oh yes – just spotted that you can’t reply to a reply beyond three tiers. Oh well…
Fair points, The Don and emgaron, I wasn’t trying to suggest that all should wear helmets, just as I don’t think you guys were trying to suggest that nobody should wear a helmet. I think both helmet-wearers and non-helmet-wearers get a bit tetchy about those on the very opinionated opposite side of their choice calling them stupid for the decisions they make.
The “inevitable injuries” I was talking about were simply that eventually most people who ride bikes often enough, for long enough, gain stories about injuries, whether their own or others’. Some are luckier than others; some are more careful than others.
I choose to wear a helmet. I choose to wear a seat belt in the car. I choose to tie my shoelaces. I don’t look down on anyone who chooses differently, but I resent anyone thinking I’m somehow stupid or inferior for the choices I’ve made. Just as I don’t think anyone’s stupid or inferior for the choices they’ve made. Well, maybe the one about not tying the shoelaces…
I don’t argue about helmets and their benefit, I argue about the degree of risk! I’ve hit my head once in over forty years of cycling and that was my face, which would have been unprotected anyway. If you don’t trip and fall every week, you’re not going to have protection against trip and fall. If you do, you’ll likely start wearing knee and elbow pads or carrying a walking stick. Helmets are there, they’re a good tool for those who feel the need, but like walking sticks and knee pads, they shouldn’t be required by government for all persons engaging in the activity that SOME persons do clumsily.
@Adam:
“I fell on ice in Winter and cracked my helmet and still had a bump the size an egg and headache for several days. I’m sure, if I wasn’t wearing a helmet, I’d have ended up in ER.”
That’s an example of belief that every cracked helmet is a head injury prevented. But that belief is false. The number of “saved my life” stories pretty obviously exceeds the maximum number of cyclist deaths ever recorded. Ditto for “saved me from ER.”
Bike helmets are soft plastic. I’ve seen them crack from being dropped. I have two friends who cracked theirs from bumps so gentle the wearers didn’t even know they’d touched. And bike helmets are quite a bit bigger than heads, so at least some people that would have had a near miss dent a piece of soft plastic. They yell “It saved my life!” and the manufacturers smile all the way to the bank.
BTW, Adam – I’ve fallen walking in winter way more than riding my bike. Same for most people. How soon should we see Winter Helmets for All Occasions?
Oh great, while we’re on *that* level… The only bike-accident that got me into hospital for a night for fear of damage to my head was the single one where I *was* wearing a helmet (which didn’t even get scratched, btw…).
What’s the significance of this? Right: Nothing, just like all other anecdotes…
But then again, last year I would have loved to have worn a foot-helmet, that might have spared my ankle…
If only the anecdotal helmet savior stories didn’t outnumber the helmet savior events 10,000 to 1.
Helmets are a simple, basic, and prudent precaution is all. Sure, I don’t like wearing one. They’re often ugly, hot, and aggravating. But still, in a crash, minor or major, it’s better to have something protecting your head than nothing. Broken bones and scrapes will heal, but a head injury…
However, if people don’t want to wear one, that’s their decision to make. I don’t care for the sarcastic, condescending attitude of the comments directed toward those who choose to wear helmets, though. I’ve found, at least in my area, that the majority of cyclists who wear helmets generally have no problem with those who don’t; it’s often the non-helmet wearers who seem to have the chip on their shoulder.
Not at all my experience. That chip on the helmetless rider’s shoulder is probably from being scolded and preached at by multiple “moral busybodies.” (great quote, that–I’m gonna remember it.) That said I wear a helmet. Mainly to save my wife’s forehead from worry lines…B-)
Bingo!!!!!!! Despite my reputation and perception as a completely anti-helmet-curmudgeon, there are a few times and places when I wear one. Anytime I’m mountain biking. On my 0500 morning rides (it’s night and I live in the boonies, and there are some nasty potholes). For the moment, when I’m on my recently built 1990 Schwinn Paramount TT bike – it’s fast, touchy, and I’m having a difficult time getting used to the TT bars. Transitioning is a scary bitch.
On the other hand, with the crowds riding on Saturday and Sunday around Ashland, VA (a very bicycle friendly city 15 miles north of Richmond), I’m one of a very small minority who rides helmet-less. By choice. And I get real tired of the “where’s your helmet?” comments as other riders pass me (average is usually 3-4 per Sunday). Don’t ask what I’m like when somebody decides to lecture me at the local coffee house, “for my own good” of course.
Above all, in the past few years, the argument has escalated to the point that helmets seem to have acquired some kind of magic powers that’ll protect cyclists from EVERYTHING dangerous. Or so the proponents seem to claim.
Finally, add in my personal opinion of someone who’s old enough to remember the John Kennedy days well, and actually understand what was going on at that time: This country, in general, has turned into a pack of wimps who are incapable of ever going back to the moon, or doing anything else for that matter that would take serious risk. We all want everything oh-so-safe nowadays.
“it’s often the non-helmet wearers who seem to have the chip on their shoulder.”
Yup. It indeed seems that the anti-helmet side is usually more vocal and more persistent on bike forums than the pro-helmet people.
When I do long dayrides or tours outside of the city I often don’t wear a helmet. The chances of minor accidents are lower while the chances of getting rear-ended by a car going at 50mph are greater, in which case a helmet won’t do squat for me anyway. But I do wear one when commuting and mountain biking.
@ AdamDZ: “It indeed seems that the anti-helmet side is usually more vocal and more persistent on bike forums than the pro-helmet people.”
The people who think helmets are a scam have way more data on their side. The helmet pushers run out of steam after “It saved my life” and an “organ donor” wisecrack.
I apologize for my sarcasm.
Helmets are a simple, basic, and prudent precaution is all. Sure, I don’t like wearing one. They’re often ugly, hot, and aggravating. But still, in a crash, minor or major, it’s better to have something protecting your head than nothing. Broken bones and scrapes will heal, but a head injury… – Adam in Indiana
Couldn’t have said it better.
@ Adam: “are a simple, basic, and prudent precaution is all. Sure, I don’t like wearing one. They’re often ugly, hot, and aggravating. But still, in a crash, minor or major, it’s better to have something protecting your head than nothing.” But how is that true ONLY while riding a bike? Do you guys not know that almost all bad head injuries have nothing to do with riding bikes?
You should read up on this. Then you can explain why you push helmets for ONLY such a tiny portion of head injuries.
“But how is that true ONLY while riding a bike? Do you guys not know that almost all bad head injuries have nothing to do with riding bikes?
You should read up on this. Then you can explain why you push helmets for ONLY such a tiny portion of head injuries.” — DS
Because we’re talking about riding bikes, obviously. If this were a baseball forum, would you use the same logic for someone who didn’t want to wear a batting helmet in a batting cage? What about hockey players? How ’bout a construction worker on a jobsite? Each one of these taken by itself makes up a “tiny portion of head injuries”, but each is a situation where it seems perfectly logical to wear a helmet, simply because of the risk.
And frankly, yes, I think there is a bit of risk to my head in riding a bicycle, so I wear a helmet. Simple as that.
@Adam: So what you’re really saying is this:
Bell Sports looked at the <500 bike head injury deaths in the U.S. and said "Hey, if we can scare bike people into wearing helmets. We'll make a fortune!"
But when someone said "Hey, there's thousands of walking head injury deaths each year, and maybe 25,000 inside cars! Let's make an even bigger fortune there!" then the people at Bell Sports said "Naw, let's just do bikes."
So how do you decide who should wear helmets? Not cost to society, cause that would put them on motorists and walkers. Not risk per mile cause that's worse for walkers and about the same for city drivers. Not risk per hour cause you'd wear one walking in winter or walking down steps.
Its just marketing. Bell said "There are dudes who will buy anything for their bikes. Lets sell foam hats and say its for safety." Then they started saying "The racers all wear them so you should." Next thing you know, whee! People riding around the block get told they need a garish streamlined perforated picnic cooler on their head or they'll die! And everyone who has a grasshopper hit their hat says "It saved my life!!!!!"
Or rather, they said, “we already make helmets for motorcycles, we could totally expand our market into bicycles”
DS: No, that’s not what I said, actually. I made a reference to other activities where no one seemingly questions the wisdom of wearing a helmet, and then compared that to cycling. I, for one, see the wisdom in wearing a helmet while cycling just the same as those other activities. If someone else feels different and doesn’t wear a helmet, I’m actually quite fine with that.
As a side note… Once again, it’s the anti-helmet voice that resorts to sarcasm, personal attacks (my previous grasshopper comment was a bit of a joke on myself, by the way…perhaps I should have made that more obvious), and wordy, adjective-loaded insults. None of these things have any place in a civil discussion. And if anyone has taken any of my comments in those ways, I apologize.
Must be different attitudes in different areas, then.
And just to throw in my own “anecdotal helmet savior story”… Over the years, my helmet has saved me from countless chunks of gravel, road debris, and even overweight grasshoppers flying into the side of my head. I couldn’t even imagine all the cuts, bruises, and headaches I’d have suffered without wearing one! =P
ahhhhh… big government “always” knows what’s best… Baloney!
Of course it does. The Socialistic Liberal Nanny State ™!!!
Are you capable of writing a comment that doesn’t include the phrase “The Socialistic Liberal Nanny State ™!!!”
When it comes to this kind of thing, not really. I call ‘em like I see ‘em.
As a socialist, I find your comment inaccurate and offenseive. I also agree with BlindPilot that you repeat it to often.
Sorry for your luck.
If it makes you feel any better, I also don’t care much for the “Fascist Theocratic Totalitarian State ™” either.
The plethora of anecdotal evidence mostly seems to show that helmet-wearing cyclists have more accidents and bang their protected heads more than lidless riders bang their unprotected ones.
Two arguments against helmets are: that it makes cycling appear more dangerous than it actually is
and: it makes personal protection the issue instead of road safety.
I do agree that making too much of a fuss over “always wear your helmet!!” can make cycling seem more dangerous than it is. For ones thinking of getting into cycling for whatever reason, it very well could give them second thoughts about it.
“Wow… Is really that dangerous? I don’t know if I want to be constantly at risk every time I’m on a bike…”
That said, again, I always wear a helmet (much as I don’t want to), simply because a head injury has such high potential to be a game-ender.
“It’s all fun and games until…”
good words, Don, and precisely the point I worry about.
I tried to resist, but I had to chime in here on this “helmet” debate. I too have had 4 instances of shattered helmets that have saved my head from more damage, two of which were severe enough that I am fairly certain I would have had at least a trip to the ER if I weren’t wearing it.
That being said, I don’t think it is my (or anyone else’s) place to tell others that they should or shouldn’t wear a helmet. If you’re gonna ride with me, you better be wearing a helmet though. If you crash and rock your dome, I don’t drag people out of the woods…
Based on your last statement, I would rather choose not to ride with you. Helmet or no helmet.
No offense.
Just sounds to me like Teamfubar rides pretty hard back on the trails. When you’re really pushing it, there’s always a risk of messing up. When you mess up on a tough trail section, there’s always the possibility of winding up in a tree or off a cliff or other such horrible situation.
I’ve got an enduro race coming up in a couple weeks. For the uphill segments I’ll have my helmet securely strapped to my backpack, along with my knee/shin, and elbow/forearm guards. Heck, I might even take my gloves off. But you can bet your race fees that for the DH sections I’m gonna be suited up like Darth Vader’s infantry.
I did not question the importance of a helmet when riding challenging downhill/enduro/etc. trails. I would be wearing one during such activity (as opposed to daily commuting, for instance) as well. That was not the point.
yep, exactly, it’s safety equipment and tools available for use as the ADULT chooses based on their experienced risk assessment prior to engaging the activity.
I would be willing to stand behind a mandatory helmets for kids law.
Team FUBAR. Look up FUBAR. I suspect a team of extreme risk-takers.
@Yehuda Moon: Once you iron out all the bugs on the new site, will folks be able to delete their own posts? I forgot to include a link in a post I just made, and all I could do was insert the link in a reply to my post.
Isn’t technology fun?
Nah – as I mentioned in a previous comment, I like the fact that comments can’t be deleted… much like real conversation. Plus, allowing readers to delete comments might mean whole threads lose their meaning and context.
I still have yet to find a ‘like / dislike comments’ plugin for WordPress that doesn’t break comments. So that might be a ways off as well.
And any plugin that promises to email readers with new comments only works on a post-by-post basis…
A ‘like / dislike comments’ function would be cool Rick.
Good luck with your search…
If we’re never going to be able to delete comments then I guess, in order to turn on the email option, I’ll have to leave an otherwise useless one out here every day when I don’t have a worthwhile comment to make. Like this one, for instance. I’d have deleted it immediately after posting if I were able. Were deleted comments really such a big problem on the old system that the practice had to be forbidden?
Fair ’nuff.
I wear a helmet every time I ride for a few reasons. First is that when I ride on the road, I typically reach speeds where if I lose control due to some idiot’s driving or the road conditions, I want something between my head and the pavement. When off-road, it’s rocks and trees… The second reason is to set the example for my kids. If I wear a helmet every time, they see that it is important they wear theirs. My son got a pretty big “strawberry” on his face from a crash last night. If he wasn’t wearing a helmet, it would have been much, much worse.
And then there’s this attempt to put the helmet back in “helmetless” http://www.hovding.com/en/how
What do you think? For me the cost is very prohibitive (iirc it’s $600), one-time use only, and, for me anyways, wearing a big-ol’ snap scarf is as much a hassle as a plastic lid.
Is that ad for reals? And it seems that they’d have better luck if they didn’t have runway models as their target audience. Not saying models don’t ride, but I can’t take this seriously. Throw one on George Hincapie and drop the price A BIT, and then they’ll be talking.
And kuddos to Rick for getting us all fired up on this topic AGAIN. lol
Real indeed. Here’s a video showing impact results with crash test dummies instead of the runway models
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn65Bows0Ws
I’ve seen enough cases in person where a helmet mitigated the severity of an injury that I am a firm believer in wearing one, though I would not force the choice on others. Our city’s mayor recently had a cycling accident that resulted in a cracked helmet and a few weeks off the bike for other injuries. This didn’t even involve a car and it happened on a bike trail. http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/injured-mayor-returns-to-work-159788375.html
I fully know a helmet will not protect against everything (the anti helmet crowd likes to point this out). No it does not make me invulnerable, but it will lessen the severity of many injuries.
@k’tesh: I call BS on the kite thing. I think, in the interest of pointless helmet arguments on the internet everywhere, you should upload a video or picture of you flying a kite whilst properly helmented. Or helmeted, whichever you prefer. (I’m mostly kidding, but that would be awesome.)
Ben, perhaps you did not read carefully enough. K’tesh was not talking about just ANY kite. A kite of the proportions K’tesh stated is capable of lifting a grown man off the ground and high up…! and, some moments later, potentially smash the person back down on the ground very severely… or drag the person along for hundreds of yards… etc. Such things can happen to a very experienced kiter as well.
I want a kite like that! That would be amazing. John Kerry knows what I’m talking about: http://www.kiteboard.com/democratic-presidential-candidate-sen-john-kerry-kiteboards/
Call BS all you want…
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/sets/72157624736879552/with/4897255997/
Check out the top left side of this photo… (Kite hopper comes a cropper) (and that’s the medical tag (next to the article) that I was given while in hospital).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/4897255997/sizes/o/in/set-72157624736879552/
The kite (an 8pk of Flexifoil 6′ Stackers) on 500lb test spiderline kite lines
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/4898509942/in/set-72157624736879552
(I’m the guy strapped into the harness)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/4898043663/in/set-72157624736879552
Me, mid-air (before the crash… obviously)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/4898884592/in/set-72157624736879552/
Commenting desperately needs a “like” function. That is really cool. I completely thought you guys were joking about the kites, I stand corrected. As someone who already has a dorky hobby (cycling), I think flying kites so giant they can pick you up is pretty baller.
Also, helment. Gotta make sure we stay on subject. Ride on, K’tesh and Birch Creek!
“helmented” – ha! new word! define “dementia from helmet promotion”: helmented!
How comes,nearly everyone who wears a helmet can tell a story where it saved his live?
wears a helmet, not even the childreen.
And why is cycling so save in the neatherlands? very little head injuries compared to other countries, everybody rides, but nobody (instead of german Tourist
Seems the more helmets on bikers heads, the more head injuries or at least accidents.
http://www.rnw.nl/english/video/dutch-think-bike-helmets-are-unnecessary
This article says it’s because the dutch have so many “Bike Paths”. Wonder how Yehuda would feel about that.
But there is tons of data and studies proving that helmets do cut the chance of debilitating brain injury by over 50%. It’s not about keeping the head pristine, that foam is all about reducing the g-forces on the brain from a sudden force which is where most of the debilitation in average bicycling brain injury comes from. Anyway, not going to debate here, already getting enough of arguing without facts to back it up from the election year.
There’s a difference between a published study and a study that uses sound methodology. There’s lots of studies concluding benefits of helmets. I’ve read many of them. (I’m a grad student studying statistics.) What I have never read, however, is a study that uses sound methodology to reach such a conclusion. That’s not to say that every study claiming no statistical benefit of helmets uses sound methodology; they’re often done poorly, also. What it does mean is that the data do not support rejecting the null hypothesis that helmets offer no statistical benefit against injury. This shouldn’t seem surprising, considering helmets provide physical mechanisms for mitigating some injuries and exacerbating others.
Could you provide some examples of the “better” studies you have seen?
The site to which I linked below has some good criticisms of many studies.
The strip mentions the anecdotal evidence vs. statistical data argument. I have never actually seen the statistical data. Can someone point me to a link of good statistics on helmet safety?
Here are some-
http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm
http://www.helmets.org/henderso.htm
Would you prefer statistics that proved that helmets save lives or ones that show that they don’t?
Both would probably be better.
>>>Can someone point me to a link of good statistics on helmet safety?
>>>
>>Would you prefer statistics that proved that helmets save lives or ones that
>>show that they don’t?
>>
>Both would probably be better.
>
Both it is.
http://cyclehelmets.org/1157.html
I wear a helmet (almost) every time I put foot to bike pedal. That’s because the drivers around here have the intelligence of a chimpanzee on crack (and I apologize to all the crack-smoking chimpanzees on the forum for insulting their intelligence), and won’t hesitate to do something stupid and life-threatening (my life, not theirs) when they are driving around me, including such stunts as passing by running through a ditch, passing me by driving on a sidewalk, passing by driving through a parking lot… not to mention the “almost” passes that didn’t quite clear me on both sides, that was freaking scary when it happened. The biggest thing about all these dangerous events was I had no control of them other than to not be there when it happened, i.e. stay off the roads with my bike. I find this unacceptable and say that it must change.
To the group in general. It’s almost midnight, I figure the comments on today’s strip are going to die out real soon now.
The discussion on this subject is more intelligent, and way more polite, than I’m normally used to running into.
Thank you, all.
Too many people believe that cycling safety begins with wearing a helmet. Actually, wearing a helmet (even if we assume they actually prevent severe injuries, which is itself a dubious assumption) should be the very last item on a cyclists list of safety precautions. Nearly every other safety precaution, such as lights when riding at night, proper route selection, proper lane positioning, proper bicycle maintenance, etc., can prevent accidents. Helmets and other body protection gear can do virtually nothing to prevent accidents. It’s always better to prevent an accident than to mitigate damage caused by an accident.
I often see cyclists riding really dangerously along my (bicycle) commute. For example, they’ll ride so close to the curb that the only direction in which they could take evasive action, should the need arise, is into traffic. Or they’ll ride down the wrong side of the street. Or they’ll weave in and out of parallel parked cars. Or they’ll ride on the street at night without lights or with lights so small/weak that they still can’t be seen until my light illuminates them. Many times, these cyclists are wearing helmets. I doubt they get the irony.
Very good points, I agree. Cyclists who want respect from motorists need to be responsible “drivers” themselves, and that goes hand-in-hand with cycling safely. Making sure you’re seen and riding predictably goes a long way.
One final point: if it weren’t for cars on the road, I most likely wouldn’t wear a helmet. I trust myself and my own riding skill, but I don’t trust the guy in the car coming up behind me while I’m at a stoplight. True, a helmet may not help much in vehicle collisions, but it certainly can’t hurt, and it’s a very inexpensive and simple precaution.
>I trust myself and my own riding skill, but I don’t trust the guy in the car
>coming up behind me while I’m at a stoplight.
That’s exactly why I proceed through signaled intersections as soon as the way is clear. Legal or not, it enhances my safety without negatively affecting anyone else.
>True, a helmet may not help much in vehicle collisions, but it certainly can’t
>hurt
Actually, they can hurt. Many people make the decision to wear a helmet while under the impression that they can only provide benefit, not detriment, but that isn’t true. They can make injuries worse than they would otherwise be.
Wow, a helmet debate!
This is so AWESOME!!!
I choose to wear a helmet for commuting (almost all my bike miles) and have at least two close friends who have been in accidents where the helmets were badly damaged but not their heads. I think a helmet costs less than an ambulance ride, and four orders of magnitude less than a head injury might cost me in lost lifetime earnings or medical costs. My helmet is well ventilated and comfortable, and includes a rearview mirror, reflective tape, and lights. It is part of how I ride safely.
“These are people who think anecdotal helmet safety stories trump actual data” – classic quote!